Prime Tito Trinidad vs Roberto Duran 147

Trinidad was a force at welter. But I think Duran would get inside of that power or attempt to smother it, then counter it. Trinidad very capable of putting Duran on canvas for a knockdown...Would pick Duran by decision, in a very good fight.

 

Duran by beatdown

 

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If I were you, the next time I wanted to accuse a fighter of being susceptible to left hooks I'd try Ali, like sensible people do.:hi:

Just to indulge you, I'll explain the " idiocy " of your post. Duran was dropped by left hooks in his 32nd, and 43rd fights respectively ( by one fighter ), at Lightweight. He then went on to have another 76 fights 56 of which were above Lightweight, and shock horror no one knocked him off his feet with a left hook.

Those are the facts and statistics, not worthless opinions as you are proferring.

 

According to Ray Arcel the only punch that troubled Duran more than any other was a long left jab, but not by much as he usually found a way to get inside and win.

 

Leonard had alot of trouble landing clean punches on Duran in Montreal. That was one of the most amazing aspects of Roberto`s performance. He was right in front of Sugar Ray and he was still so elusive.

When Leonard did make contact with Duran much of the time Roberto was rolling with the shots if not totally slipping them. It was part of Duran`s game many people failed to see. They saw the aggressiveness, the power and the speed but his defense is what made him last so many years.

 

I just skimmed this fight real quick.

Duran came rushing in the first round and tried to corner Leonard and got hit with about 5 shots including a hard left hook as Leonard then spinned off the ropes, It happens about at the 1:30 mark. In the 3rd round when Duran was starting to take over, as he finished a beautiful combination, and Leonard lifted Durans chin with a quick uppercut. Later in the fight Leonard hit Duran with a little bolo uppercutt that looked like it lifted Duran of his feet.

There is also another point later in the fight that Duran and Leonard stand toe to toe and trade left hooks and Duran gets the worst of it. All throughout the fight Leaonard land tons of short inside bodyshots (12th round especially) and he was making Duran miss plenty as well.

I guess it is popular not to spend anytime giving Duran a critical analysis. Duran vs Trinidad? "Duran by Death". That is unfair to him and to the other fans. I have been watching Duran film for at least 12 years and he could get hit by the left hook, did get hit and it affected him. For a top ten fighter to get hit and dropped by the same punch by the same person in the same round means that he could be hit and hurt early by a left hook.

But I know I am wasting my time. We all understand Duran is a master boxer defense and offense but he got wacked by left hooks all through his career.

 

So what.."no one knocked him off his feet..."?

He Roberto Duran he is not going to be knocked off his feet all the time by left hooks. But, he was knocked off his feet by Tomy Hearns by a few right hands. Tito has a great right hand too.

He still was spun around by a left hook

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and dropped twice in his early prime by

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. I think he probably learned to be wary of the left hook after the first two DeJesus fights (he smiles at Esteban in the third fight when he slips a left hook in the first round). Duran got hit with a hard left hook in the at the end of the forth round of the

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fight. Duran got with a hard left hook in the 5th round of that same fight around the 1:30 mark when he was rushing in. In the 6th round Leonard starts the taunting and Duran rushes in and catches a few hard left hooks. About 5 or 10 second before Duran quits he gets hit by a left hook. He had been getting with left hooks al throughout that fight. BTW, in

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fight in the first round Dom Dumphy ,the annoucer, says; "the challenger is a little over anxious", and as soon as he finished that sentence Duran is nearly dropped by a light left hook as he was rushing in. I could do this more but I think I made my point. These are all facts that you can check out yourself. 3 out of 4 of those fights are in Duran's prime.


If my oppinions are worthless why do you half agree? You are using my facts as the only true examples. Why is "idiocy" in quotions? Are you quoting someone else or being ironic? If you are being ironic you would have said something like, "Foxy 01 always making an "intelligent" argument". Capise? For years you have not learned any new tricks. You still do the same thing. Give your "smart" arguments and rant hoping that someone will be impressed but, after all the smoke is clear and we weave through all of the name calling what you actually say about boxing is very thin.

"idiocy" Seriously...how long did it take you get so "clever"?

 

Unlike you I don't profess to be clever. I just see things the way they " are ", not how I want them to be to suit my own agenda.

Just ask yourself a simple question. If a fighter gets knocked off his feet by numerous fighters by left hooks, as opposed to a fighter getting knocked off his feet twice by the same guy, with the same punch, which one is susceptible to left hooks?

If you arrive at the correct conclusion, you might be on the way to accepting your ego is not as important as you believe it to be.

 

"Are". You did it again. "Wow!"

Great now that you have admitted that you are not clever...maybe you can admit that I have a valid point. I would think that getting dropped by the same person in the same round by the same punch would make it clear that you have a problem with this particular punch. I could see if it was two different people. I mean, maybe the two different guys throw the punch different. This is not the case. Duran, as great a defensive genius that he is got caught and drop by the same punch. He should have learned and not let this happen again, especially in a championship fight that he was ready and primed for. How can that be explained? How would you explain it?

BTW, Buchannan almost dropped him with a left hook, in the first round and Leonard hit with numerous left hooks in the first fight that got his attention and in the second fight Duran quit. I am sure those left hooks did not make his stomach feel better or his decision making. Barkley's left hook may have been the hardest punch Duran has ever taken next to the Hearns right hand. If I wanted to and I may I will look for more examples of Duran getting caught by hard left hook. I wonder if Benitez clipped him once or twice?

What does my ego have to do with anything. I am sure I stuggle with it just like everyone else but I do not use it as an excuse to go around a messageboard and insult people first and then talk boxing like "some people" around here do. If I am struggling from an ego issue don't you think you are too. I mean aren't you the one who started this exchange by using font size 7 to reply to my post.

I am done. You win. I have an ego and I speak "idiocy". I am cured of my ego.

 

Good boy.

You see it's not so hard is it. Someone " susceptible " to a punch would show adverse " effects " to it everytime he was caught with one. By your own boring figures that OBVIOUSLY wasn't the case with Duran was it?

In the one breath you boast how Leonard caught him with so many left hooks in their first fight, yet lo and behold FVCK ALL happened, and Leonard LOST.

In the next breath you claim Duran was SUSCEPTIBLE to left hooks.

Perhaps this might help.

adjective for susceptible.

likely or liable to be influenced or harmed by a particular thing.

Erm no, he wasn't.

Over his career, i suspect Duran was hit with possibly hundreds of left hooks, 2 dropped him.

Tell me. Seeing as Tommy Hearns completely separated Roberto from his senses with a straight right, do you believe that ANY fighter that threw a good straight right from Lightweight to S / Middle could do the same to Duran? Because that seems to be the basis of your futile argument regarding the Tito / Duran outcome.

You.

If Esteban De Jesus can drop Duran with a left hook twice ( in 2 fights ) then Tito must be able to.

Me.

Bollox.

 

So your point is that Leonard landed a few punches in the fight? Yes I would hope so over 15 rounds. The fact is that if you had to try that hard to find points in the fight where Ray landed {clean shots} then Duran must have been pretty damn elusive. Leonard missed more punches that night then he missed in 3 fights.

Anyway how that equates to the much slower, stationary and less skilled Trinidad finding Duran consistently is not very clear probably because he wouldnt.

My critical analysis is that Duran was a great defensive fighter especially for such an aggressive style. I think most people who have watched his films would agree. That doesn`t mean that he never got hit with a good punch once in awhile.

Not sure why I needed to clarify that.atsch

 

Trinidad was more susceptible to lefthooks than Duran was by a country mile. He was put down by slower, weaker punchers like Vargas and Campos with the hook and a few others.

 

I did not even bother to read most of this reply because you are too predictable. If you make a good point, at this point, I may probably miss it because I get no enjoyment out of reading your replies.

However...I will respond to this rhethorical question.

My answer is

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, If Esteban DeJesus can drop a prime Duran with a left hook twice then a prime Trinidad, who has a better left hook than DeJesus, Duran, and possibly Leonard, could drop a not prime, but still excellent Duran fighting 15 pounds over his best weight.

There. Have at it.

 

Yeah, I am definately missing something.

One guy does not understand getting hit and dropped, almost dropped, and spun around by left hooks all throughout his career somehow does not equate to having issue with the left hook. If I was watching the DeJesus bout and I had to fight Duran, I would be trying to land the same hooks the dropped Duran twice in two different fights. But, I guess that does not make sense around here?

Now I have another person who wants me to think that in the first Leonard fight.."The Brawl in Montreal" that Duran was putting on some kind of defensive clinic, with quotes like:

"Leonard had alot of trouble landing clean punches on Duran in Montreal. That was one of the most amazing aspects of Roberto`s performance. He was right in front of Sugar Ray and he was still so elusive."

and

"When Leonard did make contact with Duran much of the time Roberto was

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. It was part of Duran`s game many people failed to see."

Then I point out that in the first round in Montreal Duran rushes in and gets hit with 5 straight punches and I get flak for it. I guess Duran did not get hit with any bodyshots in the fight or do those not count? Now, you will not see a thread about Duran that I am on, that I do not give him credit for being a defensive master...but, like all people who step in the ring... he got hit a lot. But fine, if Duran slipped and rolled everything that Leonard threw so be it.

Duran is a god. Happy?