Jack johnson vs ken norton interesting stylistical match

Depends on the rule set and distance. In Johnson's era the stylistic advantage isn't as apparent for Norton as Johnson could tie him up and should be able to boss his man around in the clinches, if not match him. Norton's style does take a lot of energy to uphold, so if this was over 15 rounds the arguably more durable Johnson could wear him down, although Nortin did have excellent stamina.

In Norton's era he has a huge stylistic advantage and I think the only way Johnson has a chance is if he can get away with excessive holding. Even then Norton should be able to out work Johnson and the best He could hope for would be making Ken look bad in an awkward fight, on route to a decision loss.

 

Norton easy points victory. Johnson was the greatest of his day but he fought mostly vagabonds,coal miners and farmhands who weren't very good. Norton would be head and shoulders better than anyone he ever faced.

Norton would have the style advantage because he was a much more advanced fighter from 60 years after Johnson.

 

If Johnson is going to win then he'll have to get busy. No hanging back and smiling at the crowd while cradling the bigger Norton in his arms ala Burns et al. Norton will be pressing forward all the while jabbing and throwing that overhand right forcing Johnson to side step and counter or block and counter...but he will not be allowed to hang back and fight at his leisurly pace. Can he do it? If he can then I think he stands a good chance, especially if he lands some good clean counters and gets Norton's respect. If he can't then Ken steamrolls him to a lopsided decision.

 

Johnson not fat against Willard ? :huh

 

Depends on the limit.

Over 15, Norton would KO him in 3.

Over 25, Norton would KO him in 3.

 

Norton is very under rated. He had skills, size, and hit hard to the head or body.

Johnson's style would not work here as Norton was not easy to counter punch ( ask Ali or Holmes ), and did very well vs boxers who did not have a lot of power.

Johnson was strong for his size, but on film his clinching and hitting tactics did not work well on men near his size ( Moran ), and were a zero vs. men Bigger than himself. ( Willard ). Norton is bigger than Johnson.

Norton via mid to late round TKO

 

Johnson was a pretty good older fighter past age 35. Yet he won his best matches under 200 pounds.

If you want to use clinching, Jeffries was old and tired. Still it was clear when they clinched Jeffries was pushing Johnson backward more often than not until the late rounds.

Norton's offense I think would have a field day on Johnson's defense. Johnson had a low guard, a mostly stationary style, and a relatively short reach for a heavy. As I said Johnson is not going to counter much, and had a mostly safety first type of style vs formidable fighters in their prime

Its Norton's fight to lose on the outside. On the inside Johnson has a good uppercut ( So did Holmes ), but Norton was a very good body puncher.

 

The underlined is bull**** Johnson clamped Jeffries in a vice imprisoning his arms and allowing him to attempt to bull forward without managing to cause any damage what so ever , all the time expending his energy fruitlessly.
Johnson ripped uppercuts into Jeffries close inside and Jeffries had to take them .
Early in the fight Johnson forced Jeffries backwards into his own corner looked down to Jim Corbett and said ,"where do you want him"?

Anyone who watches the fight knows this is the case , your repeated attempts to spin it as though it was an equal contest until Jeffries tired are not born out by the ringside round by round reports , by the referees opinion ,nor by the opinion of Jeffries friends such as Corbett and Fitzsimmons and Jeffries brother Jack .

Corbett turned to Jeffries brother after the 6th round and said he's done what shall we do? Fitzsimmons the next day in national newspapers said , Johnson could have finished him any time he wanted to.Tex Rickard said the same thing and added Johnson is the greatest fighter in the world.Tommy Burns ,who hated Johnson said it was a very easy fight for Johnson .

Any objective observer of the footage can see for himself Johnson is in command from the outset.Jeffries won ONE ROUND the 4th.
Although Jim Coffroth the famous promoter said it could have been even.
Here is Coffroth's account of the fight.
In which he says" Fifteen rounds of Johnson". There were fourteen rounds of it and a bit , for the sake of brevity you could write Johnson 15 times and it would tell the story of each round".

"Then came the first clinch, and the long lithe black man outhandled his bigger white opponent" .

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...7/#words=Lack+Skill+Boxing+Helped+Johnson+Win

"It was a poor fight as fights go, this less than fifteen-round affair between James J. Jeffries and Jack Johnson. Scarcely ever has there been a championship contest that was so one-sided.
All of Jeffries's much-vaunted condition and the prodigious preparations that he went through availed him nothing. he wasn't in it from the first bell tap to last, and as he fell bleeding, bruised weakened in the twenty-seventh second of the third minute of the fifteenth round no sorrier sight has ever gone to make pugilistic history."
John L Sullivan's ringside opinion of the fight.


Anyone who after watching the fight says Jeffries held his own early on is either a fool or a liar.

In this instance you have the dubious honour of being both.

 

Stylistically I think its about even, Johnson could block a lot of Norton's wide hooks but as he wasn't a terrific puncher Norton would be comfortable coming forward,, back him up and he was cake.
Johnson liked men to come to him especially those who were shorter Norton is the taller guy but fought in a semi crouch not utilising his height.
Norton had good reach and a fine jab he is a tough proposition for anyone who isn't a premier bomber.
Norton looked to catch rights with his own right glove,similar to Marciano, this is an alternative to good head movement ,but while doing this you are not throwing your own right.

Norton also had a good work rate,Johnson would have to appreciably up his own punchstats to stay in the fight.
If Johnson could contain him in close and land his uppercuts he could turn it into his type of fight.

If Norton could land his jab with regularity and find a way past Johnson's defence to land his bodyshots he might take the play away from Jack.
The premise that Johnson was best at under 200lbs is exploded by his own opinion, he stated he was at his best against Jeffries ,for which fight the scaled 208lbs.

Norton weighed 210 in the broken jaw fight that made him, and 205 in the return with Ali so no appreciable advantage at the scales.
Johnson's reach is not a factor because Norton would be coming in.

As already stated Norton did not fight tall so he gives up his height advantage too.

I also think Johnson at least matches Norton for strength,
The idea that Johnson would not be countering Norton is fatuous. his whole game was built around it.
I lean towards Johnson finding a way to time Norton and punish him inside with short uppercuts , if he can then I think he discourages Norton's offensive and takes a decision.

But not an easy fight for either man.

 

What about Norton's jab though? Ken had a longer reach than Jack and had a very good jab to set up his overhand right. If Norton can keep this fight on the outside by using his jab effectively then he stands a good chance of winning I think. In the films we have of Johnson, I don't recall him fighting an opponent Norton's size who utilized a good stiff jab consistently throughout a fight. Burns and Ketchell were much smaller than Johnson, Jeffries fought out of a crouch and was washed up, Fireman Jim Flynn was small and had nothing but headbutts to offer and none of these men used a good jab to set up thier offense. Norton would bring to the table a more varied arsenal of weapons than Johnson would be used to dealing with especially if Kenny can keep this fight at relatively long range. As far as strength goes if Johnson is the stronger man, it's probably not by much. I seem to recall in his 1st fight with Ali Norton picked him up with 1 arm and threw in into a corner and Ali was bigger than Johnson. Not an easy fight to pick a winner as far as I'm concerned.