Is it weird that I don't see anything special in Jack Dempsey?

I believe if Jack Dempsey wanted to give Harry Wills a shot at the world heavyweight title, it would have happened. Jack Kearns also didn't seem eager to give Wills a chance. I always wonder if Tex Rickard wanted such a bout in light of what he had to go through while staging the world heavyweight title bout between Jack Johnson and Jim Jeffries. Rickard was tied up in some personal legal difficulties for quite awhile during the early 1920s. Could that be a factor in such a bout not being put together?

- Chuck Johnston

 

I doubt Rickard would have wanted to stage such a fight after the backlash of the Johnson Jeffries match. If anything I think Rickard was a driving force for the fight to not take place. Quite simply I think Wills was a victim of the incendiary trail left by Johnson. It is a shame the fight never took place.

 

I believe Dempsey would have KO'd Wills. As said many times, Wills was had pretty good size, and not that mobile or particularly fast. These qualities don't bode well against Dempsey. Just looking at some of their common opponents- Sharkey, Firpo, Fulton may be some indication. Dempsey destroyed Firpo. An out of shape eating machine Firpo went the distance with Wills in a terrible fight that was quite close. Sharkey cuffed Wills. Dempsey KOs Sharkey in a competitive fight. Wills put Fultan away in 3 rounds, Dempsey barely needed as many seconds.
Wills was damn good, was just made for Dempsey. Its makes a great story when someone is denied something or faced with hardship due to race. They make movies about all the time. There where black fighters around who would have been difficult marks for Dempsey. Godfrey was dangerous. Apparently he and Dempsey both KO'd each other during various sparring sessions. Larry Gains would have definitely beat Dempsey after Dempsey's "retirement" post Firpo had they fought instead of Tunney, maybe earlier-who knows. I think its safe to say Dempsey was the best heavy around early in his title reign, and Wills just wasn't the right guy to take the title from him due to his style, less than granite chin, and probably his age.

 

The problem with that is that Rickard wasnt the only boxing promoter in the world by a long shot. There were plenty of others who wanted that fight and could have promoted it in their sleep given the magnititude of the event but Dempsey wouldnt entertain their offers.

 

I don't think Ali was way more shot because he had remained very active .. My add to that in addition to agreeing to some degree with most of it was that Dempsey really stopped being a fighter post Carpentier .. his inactivity seriously impacted his growth and ability to perform .. he had tremendous power, great hand speed, a very tough chin, terrific recuperative powers, stamina and a huge heart .. He was under trained for the Brennan rematch, had a horrible injury and still rallied late to crush him .. he was pummeled by Tunney but had the firepower and will to almost take him out .. he was in a war w Sharkey on the sailor's best night and was turning the tide before the crushing KO .. He simply stopped being a fighter, was a full time celebrity idol and never made his way as he might have .. the fact that he almost iced Tunney and did survive a prime Sharkey has always said as much to me about what might have been w Jack as anything he actually accomplished ..

 

see, the fact that he didn't, is proof that he wasn't so great a fighter.

someone greater would be capable of sticking to the plan.

 

Its a complete myth that Dempsey was undertrained against Brennan. His camp was well documented for that fight. He was in great shape and the narrative only changed when everyone questioned why he struggled so much with Brennan and the stories started to emerge of him using loaded gloves against Willard.

I would hardly call his KO of Sharkey crushing. When he cheap shotted Sharkey after landing numerous fouls in that fight Sharkey went down clutching his nuts, not his chin. Its Sharkey's fault for trying to milk the DQ but he wasnt crushingly he KOd.

 

the reason jack gets atg status is because there were so few atgs by the 1920s.

these days hes struggling against the top atgs.


not to say that he isn't a devastating ultratough brawler who holds his own and goes the distance versus everyone from Louis to Lewis.

 

Callaghan would beat dempsey

 

Prime Dempsey was one of the best of all time...

 

Either Jack Dempsey at his best was just a step up from Butterbean as many on this
boxing site proclaim, or the vast amount of boxing intelligentsia who saw him at his best
fight and thought so highly of Dempsey, were somehow seriously on some medication ,
and in need of help...I lean towards the latter, because of some experiences I had as a boy growing up I lived next door to a trainer of John Henry Lewis in Brooklyn NY. Every night I would go next door and spar with some stablemates of JH Lewis, and speak to
the trainer and hanger ons, and they lauded Jack Dempsey to the skies...Were these people and all the boxing fraternity wrong in their estimation of Dempsey as a great
heavyweight who were of his era, whilst 80 years later, he is described so poorly by some on this site ? I put my faith on the people who saw him fight above the naysayers of
almost a century later, notwithstanding Dempsey could have fought more often than he did. That was his choice then to accumulate vast money after a tough youth and sow his wild oats in Hollywood, wooing silent screen stars. Who can blame him ? I can't...
But at his best he was a tough, mean hombre in the ring as his contemporaries proclaimed...In his prime he got the job done all the time...

 

Mike Tyson based his whole style on Jack Dempsey, that speaks volumes.

Nobody bases their fighting style on a nobody.

 

I really don't care about peoples' opinions on who would have won in a Dempsey-Wills match-up. The facts remain that Wills DESERVED the shot for many years and that Wills represented a greater threat to the belt than any of Dempsey's challengers.

That is all that needs to be said on the subject... not some hackneyed Monday morning analysis.

 

I think that's very well put.

 

i am sure there were many black fighters better than Jack.Jack Johnson and his contemporaries,Langford,Janette, etc were the best.After Johnson won,blacks were barred until light skinned Joe Louis who went on to dominate.I think all the white fighters,Dempsey,Tunney,Braddock,Baer,Carnera only thrived because of the blacks not "allowed" sort of speak to hold the crown.