The Transnational Boxing Rankings

TBRB can redesignate a result based on atrocious judging. But that wasn't the case here. However, Sturm made an overall impression and that impression was acted upon. Stieglitz was #3 at the time of that meeting. Making this drastic impression against the #3 SMW fostered Sturm's high ranking. Statistically, none of the guys below him:

7. James DeGale
8. Sakio Bika
9. Gilberto Ramirez Sanchez

Had better form.

I definitely don't think it's the worst thing in the world, based on the in-ring performance.

We disagree entirely that he "never fought at supermiddle". I think he inarguably did fight at suppermiddle. I'm not interested in the distinction you have made here. Two adult alpha males under the advice of lawyers, trainers, managers and accountants signed a contract stipulating weights. Those weights were inarguably in the sweep of the SMW division. There's really no argument to be had here for me, though some of the other guys may be interested, I don't know.

But this is, was and probably always will be my attitude to catchweight.

 

Right: but Ward-Rodriguez was recognised as being an over-the-limit at SMW. That's what happened. What happened after the fight doesn't make it contradictory, and to be frank the amount of weight we are talking about here is so tiny it might have been regarded as SMW if they had both said they were off to 175 before the fight.

Because it is so very, very clearly an over-the-weight SMW contest.

Either way, all of this is very simple and has been needlessly complicated.

 

I think you can make a powerful argument where both men are concerned, but I disagree that it is definite. Sturm has the best performance of the three against top 3. How you weigh that is what is key here in recent times.

This, I couldn't care less about. He picked that belt out of the trash. It means nothing.

Sure but surely in that decade it is recognised that sometimes he ranked high and sometimes he ranked low, and that when he ranks low, by definition, débutantes can be expected to rank above him? I mean longevity, in and of itself is no guarantee of ranking above someone who lacks it.

Taken in tandem with the above, I think it's very clear how losing to the #7 could result in your being ranked below a fighter who draws with the #3, giving a favourable impression in doing so.

 

I mean - i presume you know all of this, but I'll explain it as if you don't.

Ward and Rodriguez were both ranked at 168lbs. They agreed to have a fight at 168lbs. One of the fighters missed the weight by 2lbs. This is as close and clear to a definition of over-the-weight that you are going to get.

In the other fight you are trying to compare it with, the two fighters weighed six pounds over the middleweight limit - and it was not stipulated at middleweight match. One of the fighters was an established super-middleweight, the other was moving to super-middleweight to campaign as a super-middleweight.

These two examples are completely different - yes, they are opposites.

I have no idea how confusion or contradiction could be born from discussions surrounding these two fights; they have no baring on one another.

If I have said something that has confused you at some point let me make clear here: Ward-Rodriguez was denoted by the board a fight at 168lbs. This has been known since the early thirties as "over-the-weight." Unless I am missing something, everyone else in the world considered the fight at fight at 168lbs, where a fighter missed weight by a tiny bit.

If we devised our rankings based upon the - frankly - ludicrous notion that every time a fighter missed weight and that fight went ahead, the fight was being fought in the division above, our rankings would be utterly **** within five years. It would be gooblydygook.

 

This is getting silly now. It's perfectly, perfectly reasonable, their rankings, it's just a division that's lacking depth (hence the arguablility all round). It's not "a laugh" or if it is it's one that both Boxing Monthly and Ring don't get either. All three of us rank these fighters identically aside from BM's bizarre ranking of JCC above Abraham.

The ranking is perfectly proper. I think you're just putting what's negative about these fighters first in your mind for some reason.

There is no serious rankings body that has Dirrell above Abraham. So be honest, but be open to the idea that everyone else isn't completely wrong.

As i've already said, it depends on how you weigh that draw. I believe it to be reasonable, and have no problem with it. Drawign with a top ranking contender>KOing a prospect is most definitely reasonable in a vacum and in this specific case I certainly think it's more reasonable than insisting that Strum hasn't fought at 168lbs, or that Abraham should be below Dirrell inarguably.

 

Frankly, I don't see how you can't see why the enormous difference in weights makes an enormous difference in perception.

I can't understand why you don't see why both are very clearly 168lb fights and I don't understand why you think anything i've said on the subject is contradictory. Both fighters weighing 166lbs is a SMW fight. Why wouldn't it be? One fighter weighing 2lbs over a given limit is going to be a fight that belongs to that limit it. Why wouldn't it? I'm not trying to undermine you - I just literally can't see any sense in what you are saying to me, I can't understand why you don't see the enormous difference.

There's nothing complicated in either one of these ideas and nothing contradictory in my words exactly as you quote them.

If you feel I misled you I hope this is now as clear as it is possible for something to be - but I do feel it's time now for you to direct any further questions directly to the board, as I feel unable to make this any clearer to you on my own.

http://www.tbrb.org/mission/

 

Not at all, fun and games, the whole point of the thread was stuff like this.