Do you think there is a boxer, present or past, who could beat Ottke?

Markussen was never faster than Lar-sen, but you're right, he did try to rough him up more with some succes and to Ottke's frustration.
I've only read articles saying Murray was robbed, not the other way around, and the only controversial thing about Soliman I was that he using doping. The others i can't remember well enough.
You're naming me 3 **** fighters who fought many years ago. They might be controversial, but it's not a lot, and i think there has been just as controversial dec. in any other country

 

Quite a few but not in Germany.

 

He was though, it's easy to see. Well, that's not what pops up if you search for the Sturm - Murray fight, but maybe you've read it somewhere else. I think you said that there were more dodgy decisions in Denmark than in Germany, and there has been a few in Germany. It's possible that there were a such decisions, but it's been in a totally irrelevant fight which i personally don't care much about. I'll bet there are just as dodgy decisions in any other country amongst those poor pro's. Yes, but the fact that you can't name any recent fights makes me believe that there maybe aren't so many controversial decisions in Denmark

 

Ive seen all of his ottke fights.

The only one i thought he should have lost was the reid fight. THe 1st Brewer fight was close.

In the fight with mads la.rsen both of them had a low workrate, actually it was an absolute borefest from both of them, Ottke still threw slightly more and landed more, it was a close fight, he sure wasn't in complete control of the action at all times, but the danish guestfighter was much too inactive to win a verdict abroad on the titleholders home turf with so few punches connecting. Ottke won the bout by a couple of rounds but i wouldnt even accept money to watch the fight again because it was so boring.

Second brewer fight and the Mitchel fights: although the verdicts were split decisions in both cases ottke won fair and square. In contrast the first Brewer fight was a lot closer, back then Ottke was only on his 12th or so pro bout and already taking on a legitimate world-titleholder, Id say the first brewer fight could have gone either way but it sure wasnt a robbery, while the second Brwer fight was a clear cut ottke win and the sd verdict was a disgrace. Against Mitchell he was for the most part dominating the guy. In the last round with a comfortable lead under the belt he got careless and then got wobbled by mitchell. Mitchell trying to take the chance to turn the match by KOing ottke then chased him around the ring for the rest of the round without much success. Yet, even if you give that round 10-8 to mitchell (imo theres no reason for a 2 point gap as there was no kd, just saying) ottke still won the bout and by a pretty comfortable margin.

In the reid fight and at a time ottke was clearly sliding indicated by a low workrate and slower overall moves, the guest at first adopted a counterpunching style that ottke didnt like at all and connected at will. Ottke was looking for the ref to help him out and so he did, telling reid off for a variety of punches most of which seemed legit (yet not all of them, though), interrupting his rhythm. Reid became frustrated with the situation for getting a point deducted and being told off for practically everything and changed his strategy, from then he was chasing ottke around the ring, this was like after the 6th round, ottke became more comfortable and looked his own self.
But until the 6th round he needed the refs help, tbh it looked bizarre.

Ottke at his prime was an elusive and awkward fighter who had very fast hands and a high workrate. It has to be said he got away with excessive clinching as well, tbh. The past prime ottke despite still defensively apt got hit a little more often and especially he started throwing much less, so in the last year of his career his matches overall got closer and closer, until as said in the first half of the reid fight, imo ottke got schooled until the ref stepped in and helped him out. After reid changed style ottke imo won the majority of the remaining rounds. But it wasn't a legitimate win.

Ottke of course noticed he was going downhill and despite his unbeaten tag he decided to call it a day, he only fought one last farewell match against former wbo title holder krainc. In this fight he adopted an aggressive style attacking the guest and connecting at will and winning a wide decision. But Krainc also was a level beneath the competition ottke had fought before, still, he was a good opponent for an old champ to shine against and say farewell to his fans.

 

From what i've read the Sturm - Macklin fight was very controversial - i even saw it on a list of the most Controversial decisions since 2000 along with Reid-Ottke, and there can be no doubt that Haye beat Valuev with ease.
Ok, so you can name a very low-level fights from years ago, that doesen't quite convince me, unfortunately..

 

Fine, I'll just make a separate thread. :sad2

 

Dr Ottke?

 

There was a grigorian bout late in his career against a pole - forgot his name - that looked a tad suspicious, too. But generally speaking I agree with Ra in that theres at least as many foreign fighters getting a verdict - and even a controversial one - here over a home fighter than the other way round. You ll find examples of both cases, and same can be said about any other country, I believe.

DM vs gonzalez initially right after the fight i thought it was a draw, but you can make a point for the guest doing enough to clinch the fight, he was busier, DM had a few more telling shots on target, but that just tells you everything, DM was on an unbeaten run and had defended his title like 20 times and then loses a verdict in a relatively close fight at home. I do think the guest deserved the win after all but it was definitely close enough, I say if DM had been american and the fight taken place in the US DM would have walked away with the title.

 

I didn't watch that fight between Holbæk and Sinitsin, you might be right. I haven't seen the Haye fight since but i don't remember it as particularly close, i might have to watch it again though.

 

Uhm Yes, I watched the fight, live. Mundine knocked Ottke down (rules a slip by the biased German ref) and then Mundine got his own glass jaw cracked and KTO'd. What part did you not understand?

 

I agree that Brian Nielsen probably won a few controversial decisions, but it was before i started watching boxing, so i haven't seen most of the fights.
I just read an article on BBC sport written after the fight where Valuev in an interview didn't complain about the judges but said that the pace was simply too high for him, that gives a decent indication i think.

 

Robin Reid beat him already, one of the worst robberies ever.

 

Eggsactly, my friend used to think his name was Smit. Some guy that a 10 fight mundine had beat until he choked.