Marquez Defeating Pacquiao DOES NOT Indicate Pac Loses to Floyd- A Technical Summary

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Bogotazo, Nov 13, 2011.



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  1. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    bballchump11, May 6, 2013
    bballchump11, May 6, 2013
    #946
  2. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Not a bad gif to post. If Pac comes in behind a jab wide open without feinting or leaning rightwards, he'll get caught on the way in just like that.
     
    Bogotazo, May 6, 2013
    Bogotazo, May 6, 2013
    #947
  3. bballchump11

    bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    yeah and the thing with Manny is how fast he is combined with his crazy feints, he can be hard to anticipate and see coming. But I think after Floyd adjusts to him, he'll be able to time him.

    Floyd's mastery of distance and his reach helps him a lot because Pacquiao has to come to Floyd. I remember Floyd Sr. a while back being asked how will Floyd deal with Pacquiao's stamina.

    Floyd Sr replied, "Floyd doesn't have to use a lot of energy. He can sit back, let Pacquiao do all the moving and counter him"

    It's weird that the last 2 southpaws Mayweather fought were seen to be very aggressive coming into the fight and I was looking forward to seeing how Floyd deals with them. But he tamed Ortiz and Guerrero very well.
     
    bballchump11, May 7, 2013
    bballchump11, May 7, 2013
    #948
  4. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I think the key is that they were useless without their lead hands. Mayweather has had trouble with the straight left but has always been good a pawing a right jab down, hooking over a right hook, or shooting a right when the lead hand is left out in the open.
     
    Bogotazo, May 7, 2013
    Bogotazo, May 7, 2013
    #949
  5. Reginald II

    Reginald II Member Full Member

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    bump
     
    Reginald II, Nov 28, 2014
    Reginald II, Nov 28, 2014
    #950
  6. Stovepipe

    Stovepipe Boxing Addict Full Member

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    wow this is such a high level discussion. I want to see what they have to say now
     
    Stovepipe, Nov 28, 2014
    Stovepipe, Nov 28, 2014
    #951
  7. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    to beat pacquaio you gotta take some risks

    i think floyds ahtleticism has declined making it more difficult for him to hit pac whilst not getting hit himself

    i think floyd will shell up vs pac and lose a close decision

    floyd gets caught up in his own defence, we saw it in the first maidana fight

    vegas judges are notortious in favoring the fighter with greater output and aggressiveness
     
    jas, Nov 29, 2014
    jas, Nov 29, 2014
    #952
  8. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Oh hey. I would write this thread differently today then I did at the time, but I still stand by the principle. It's different now that both are past their peaks/primes, but one shouldn't ****yze what Floyd would/should/could do based on the Marquez fight.

    JMM constantly pivots leftwards to get lead foot positioning while changing levels and countering with combinations.

    Floyd more often backs straight up and sets up his right hand more often by stepping to his right at range.

    Floyd can still win that way since both he and Pac turn the "wrong" way to get different angles but it's much riskier and he's sensitive to feints in a different way. He often has to plant himself to throw and Pacquiao can get the side angle if he feints right and throws the left down the middle or towards his left (Floyd's right) where Floyd's head is, like he did to Tim when he ducked down. But he'll have to improve on his Algieri performance. That fight showed me he can still close the distance very quickly, but he also can't keep an opponent on the ropes. Activity is the key for Manny here. Floyd can still move well but his reflexes are off every once in a while. I'd favor him but if Pac is prepared to fight every minute, it's more of a gamble.
     
    Bogotazo, Nov 30, 2014
    Bogotazo, Nov 30, 2014
    #953
  9. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In my opinion, it still comes down to which fighter dictates the range during the course of the fight.

    At long range, Mayweather can control Pac with jabs or straight rights downstairs. He's got the edge in height and reach, and is still very capable of making those advantages count inside the ring.

    At close range, Mayweather can gain head-arm control, and then "guide" him into an uppercut before sliding off and forcing a reset; and since Pac isn't great in the trenches, I see him having difficulty stopping Mayweather from using this tactic.

    Of course, if the fight takes place at mid-range, then Pac's chances of winning increase exponentially. He can step in, fire off quick combos, and then step to the side and then forward to repeat the process. But if he gets to close, Mayweather probably controls him. If he steps to far out, he runs the risk of getting pot-shotted from the outside.

    May still has the edge, imo, based on his command of two of the three ranges. But Pac's mastery of mid-range makes him a live dog.
     
    Drew101, Nov 30, 2014
    Drew101, Nov 30, 2014
    #954
  10. EJDiaZ

    EJDiaZ Boxing Addict Full Member

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    50/50 fight if it happens
     
    EJDiaZ, Dec 1, 2014
    EJDiaZ, Dec 1, 2014
    #955
  11. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    this fight will be boring if it ever happens. Floyd will bhop manny to a 9-3 decision. Lunge in with a right, hold. Break up the action. Run around in circles.

    just like he did vs maidana
     
    walk with me, Dec 1, 2014
    walk with me, Dec 1, 2014
    #956
  12. Ahurath

    Ahurath Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well I agree to a certain extent styles makes fight. But whenever Pac has faced a counterpuncher he's had some problems.

    Since Floyd is the best counterpuncher today then it shouldn't raise that many eyebrows when Pac is not a favourite to win. However this is still boxing and who knows how well Floyd can cope with Pac's speed and angels.

    Hopefully they can get it on in 2015 before both men are 40 years old.
     
    Ahurath, Dec 1, 2014
    Ahurath, Dec 1, 2014
    #957
  13. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Manny has always been a sucker for the right hand even in fights he dominated

    But guys like Marquez and Morales with good rights landed sharp and he took it and kept going outside the KO of course

    I've always picked Floyd, check my post history but to me the fight is closer now than ever. Floyd looked very vulnerable and seems to really have declined judging by the Maidana fights. Maybe its testament to Maidana being tough and awkward but I think Floyd has slowed enough and his low punch out put can be an issue vs Pac

    Pac does struggle with movers and is tagged over and over by rights but he keeps coming and you have to gain his respect to stop him from charging. I think the fight is closer and that Manny is going to get his hands on Floyd more now than I thought he could say 2-3 yrs ago. Manny has declined too but I think he is still capable of getting to Floyd

    I think Floyd wins but gets hit plenty
     
    KO KIDD, Dec 1, 2014
    KO KIDD, Dec 1, 2014
    #958
  14. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    This is a really good way to visualize it I think, range matters a lot and you broke down well who has the advantage well. But I do think that we're a bit fooled into thinking Pacquiao doesn't like being on the outside. Nobody actually ever keeps him on the outside (except JMM and Morales turning into their jabs leftwards), and tall fighters themselves are made to reach since he's so good at darting out of range. Although Floyd will undoubtedly have his most success shooting straight shots to the head and body from that distance. And another important point is who controls the angle. The range matters, but the angle is just as important, and Pac has the advantages there so long as he can close the distance to some degree first. It doesn't matter how long Floyd's right hand is if he finds himself near the ropes with Pac to his side. The Maidana rematch gameplan is not really his default.

    Good post.
     
    Bogotazo, Dec 1, 2014
    Bogotazo, Dec 1, 2014
    #959
  15. box4life11

    box4life11 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    People tend to forget Marquez turned down insane money for another fight for a reason..
    People also forget the round before Marquez knocked pac out how bad of a beating Marquez was taking ....


    Pac is no easy fight for anyone even Marquez
     
    box4life11, Dec 1, 2014
    box4life11, Dec 1, 2014
    #960
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