Who gives prime Ali his greatest test?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Dec 10, 2014.


  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    ALI would have reached his prime, beginning around late 68, through 72, had it not been for the exile. I strongly believe that he would have beaten Frazier, beat him again in a rematch and there would have been no third fight between them. The same holds true for Norton, who receives FAR too much credit, due to his series with ALI.

    Prime ALI's was indeed a difficult problem to solve for ANY fighter. However, being human, ALL fighters can possibly be beaten.

    I believe that the measure of great fighters, when paired against each other, can not be accurately assessed in just ONE fight. Some styles and abilities are so close that a fight could always go the other way in a rematch. I believe that a series of THREE or even more in some cases, is the best way to determine a winner.

    Naturally, we can't do this because the greats are retired or long gone. However, if you can consider that "Fighter A" can beat "Fighter B", you MUST ask the question "Can Fighter B reverse the outcome?"

    Given this, I believe ALI's toughest challenges would come from Joe Louis, Sonny Liston and Larry Holmes. They rank 2,3,4 on my list.

    Zora Foley, ALI's last pre-exile opponent once said that "there is no way to train for the way ALI fights. Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, no one would have a chance against him."

    Sugar Ray Robinson, boxing's greatest ever, once said that he didn't really have a lot of power. He said that his effectiveness comes from the fact that his opponents can't always see his punches coming. It's a proven fact that punches that you can't see can hurt the most.

    This is one advantage ALI would have over most anyone. He is as far from a correct boxer as one can be but, with his speed, timing and something else no other heavyweight has, Perfect Symmetry, he could get away with tactics that have gotten other fighters flattened.

    ALI has something else that most lack. I think studies will show that the closest thing to the perfect heavyweight boxer lies between 6'1 - 6'4" and weigh between 205 - 225 lbs. Anyone outside those dimensions tends to lack something.

    Marciano is shorter and lighter. He takes a lot of punishment and would not do well against the post ALI era.

    The bigger heavyweights lack stamina, speed and balance. The smaller ones lack durability and power.

    Of the other top heavyweights, it's possible that Sonny Liston could win 1/3. This is a long shot and only IF he can use his size and strength to offset ALI's speed and balance.

    Louis could possibly take 1/3 but it's really not likely.

    Larry Holmes and Sonny Liston would provide very tough challenges for post ALI. Still, he beats them more often than not.

    The thing that places ALI first, on my list, is that he'd lose fewer battles in a series of 3.
     
  2. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wlad's a terrible match up for him stylistically- a conservative, high ring IQ out boxer with exceptional footwork, a size/reach advantage, and the offensive tools he has would be too much. He's not easy to hit and won't take unnecessary risks to give Ali extra opportunities.

    I just don't see Ali scoring enough without getting picked off, particularly by the left hook- a punch he's historically been vulnerable to. Wlad's got one of the best there's been in the division.
     
  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Grabimir beating Ali? Lol this isn't the comedy forum! :lol:
     
  4. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Marciano, pressure and 2-fisted power,stamina and awkward style

    Joe Louis -hard punching combinations and great variations of left hooks

    Dempsey-speed and a powerful left hook

    Tyson-tough early rounds to get past but mind-strength can be an issue in this

    Joe Frazier -Left Hook

    Vlad- size and Jab, right hand and hook- Ali has speed of hand and foot and will play the mind but present Vlad has many tools and would be formidable
     
  5. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    Actually, if we were going by comedic ability, I'd give Ali a decided edge.

    As for boxing, people are too emotionally invested if they can't even admit there's a big stylistic hurdle for Ali here- even if they ultimately favor him.
     
  6. lepinthehood

    lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

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    Lennox Lewis - Good Jab, rangier, Good outside boxer, dirty streak, can streetfight, decent inside fighter.

    Larry Holmes - better jab, better right hand. slightly slower.

    Mike tyson - More varied and more powerful than frazier - gonna cause ali some problems.

    Great Jabs, Fast, Rangy. Holmes has a better jab than ali.
    Lennox lewis could do it all. And only big punchers are his problem.
     
  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    This question shouldn't be asked or we'd be insulting His Greatness. Common man, whether it's 18-year old Clay or 22-year old Clay that beat Liston or 25-year old Ali that beat Cleveland Williams or the 32-year old Ali that knocked Foreman out or the 36-year old Ali that won the heavyweight title a third time, Wlad wouldn't stand a chance. The pre-exile Clay/Ali was too fast and too quick, he wouldn't touch him while the post-exile Ali, though a step or two slower, was bigger, stronger, smarter and had unmatched physical and mental toughness, not to mention fighting heart.
    Ali comes out to meet Klitschko and Klitschko starts to retreat
    if he goes back further ..............he'll end up in a ringside seat
    Ali swings with a left and swings with a right
    look at Muhammad as he carries the fight
    klitschko keeps backing but there's not enough room
    its a matter of time before Ali lowers the boom
    now Ali swings with a right, what beautiful swing
    and the punch knocks Wlad clear out of the ring . klitschko still rising.
    the ref wears a frown
    he can't start counting till Wladimir comes down
    Now klitschko disappears form view, the crowd is getting frantic
    But our radar stations pick up, he's over the Atlantic
    who would have thought when they came to the fight
    that they'd wittiness the launch...of a human satellite
    yes, the crowd did not dream, when they came to their seat
    they would see a man get so easily beat.....
     
  8. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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  9. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    Or, you can keep on blowing Ali. That's cool too.
     
  10. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lewis, Tyson, Holmes, Liston, and Vitali...But would not pick any of them to beat a prime Ali.
     
  11. Waynegrade

    Waynegrade Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Trying to compare Vlad,s `footwork` to Clay/Ali is like trying to compare Fred Astaire with Rerun from What,s Happening show years ago. Ali, moved like a lightweight and his hands were twice as fast as Vlad,s. Truthfully,there is zero comparison in the speed department. Vlad would look ponderously slow against Ali. Ali,s jab would be a huge factor here,blinding him with it so he could land his right cross. There is no way in hell Vlad (master of the hug,clinch) is going to outhustle and outwork Ali. And he sure as hell isn,t stopping Ali. The guy who would pose prime Ali the most problems, Larry Holmes. Here,s why... Holmes too had a sterling jab and with even more pop on it as well. Good chin,excellent lateral movement and good ring savvy as well. It,s a damn tough fight for Ali. But,I still have him winning by just being a whisker faster and keeping just a step ahead of Holmes... Other than that Lewis is a good one as well. However, i can,t see Lewis outworking Ali either and lets face it,Ali didn,t get stopped...
     
  12. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Wayne, not have a dig here matey but just curious why you always use a commer instead of an apostrophe, as in '' it's '' '' It,s ''
     
  13. kdually14

    kdually14 New Member Full Member

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  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    lmao
     
  15. The General

    The General Boxing Addict Full Member

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    its a joke really, pre exile ali would be too small and wouldn't have a chance against wlad, post exile ali relied too much on holding and draining his opponents energy a tactic which he wouldn't be able to use and would have it used against him against wlad

    h2h Wlad is favorite against every heavyweight in history imo, him vs Lennox is 50-50