How much credit should Dempsey get for his controversial victory over Jack Sharkey?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Apr 25, 2015.


  1. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am really continually amazed that people feel Dempsey fouled Sharkey with the three right uppercuts to the body prior to the KO blow. The fight is readily available on YouTube AND if you look hard enough you can find a bright and clear copy. What you will see is Dempsey pumping two right uppercuts into Sharkeys body that are unquestionably ABOVE the area that is considered below the belt (imaginary line from hip bone to hip bone). The third right hand you can't see but quite obviously Dempsey does not dip his shoulder or change his positioning. It's just three consecutive very hard right hands to the belly. So rather than debate really a non issue watch the ending of the fight and see for yourself. I like the previous poster have been watching this bout since the early 70s.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    You can't judge the officiating by today's standards.

    A lot of referees of the period let fighters get on with it, if they were both mutually intent on fouling each other.

    Either way, unless the foul in question was enough to cause a DQ in and of itself, there would be nothing to argue about regarding the rest of the fight.
     
  3. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great find Edward. It does appear to give Sharkey more credit for trying to rise. I had never seen that angle. Good stuff.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If Dempsey hit Sharkey low, then he was wrong to do it, but it is hard to argue that he should have been DQd solely based on such a foul.

    Taking it from there, he was right to hit Sharkey, even if he was complaining to the referee.

    It's a knockout, plain and simple.
     
  5. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    J, how dare you tell the truth that has been generally accepted by the referee and boxing media lo these many years, that Jack Dempsey kod Jack Sharkey July 21, 1927.? After all J, this is ESB...Home of many honorable Dempsey haters...Repent...:patsch
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    What people need to understand, is that the low blow and the knockout punch, would be two separate events.

    You either think that Dempsey should have been DQd prior to the knockout punch, or you think that he knocked Sharkey out.

    If your position is the former, then you have to say at what point he should have been DQd, and why.
     
  7. Saltzy

    Saltzy Bam-O Full Member

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    Kind of like a more recent fight in Torres vs Holt. Ricardo Torres was actually knocked out by a headbutt then got smashed by a big punch and crumpled to the canvas, but the ref didn't call the headbutt so it didn't matter.

    Same with the low blow I guess, ref didn't call it so doesn't matter. However I wouldn't put too much credit behind the win in this case, a wins a win however
     
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The three blows just before the Ko blow were not low.
     
  9. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Protect yourself at all times!!!"...Sharkey didn't...Dempsey wins by KO...nuff said
     
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree with you.

    The "foul" posters all seem to be assuming facts not in evidence, as they say in a courtroom.

    I am not saying there couldn't have been a blatant foul. I am only saying I have never seen it,

    and have asked for those who see the foul to point out where it is. No one has yet. I don't think those last three rights to the body were clearly low off the film.
     
  11. amhlilhaus

    amhlilhaus Well-Known Member Full Member

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    full credit, sharkey didn't protect himself at all times.

    he also got starched by carnera not paying attention.
     
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Actually if you read the newspaper accounts the days after the bout there are headlines that read......."Film of fight shows blows to body were legal"
    What you had here as in any bout from that time were a boxing crowd and ringside reporters that did not have the luxury of instant replays. Some saw the blows as fair some saw them as low. Both could not be correct. It all depends on where they were seated, angles from ringside etc which determined what THEY THOUGHT they saw. The REALITY is on the film. Then as now upon looking at the film the only conclusion that can be drawn is that those three body blows were not below the belt. Please look for yourself before posting that they were low.
     
  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Edward,

    The angle of the film you posted showed Sharkey trying to "help" himself up with his left hand.

    Watch the normal angle, it shows Sharkey clutching his crottch with his right hand, in severe pain.

    I could also argue that 1 second prior to landing the left hook knockout blow, and right after the punch to the ballls, sharkey began to dip his left knee as if he was going down to the canvas on his own from the pain. Watch the film, his left knee begans to dip...Then as his knee his dipping dempsey bangs him with a left hook to the jaw. This leads me to believe sharkey was on his way down to the canvas in pain from the low blow PRIOR to the left hook to the head landing. The ref should have stopped the fight right when Sharkey turned to him in pain.



    Janitor(Ben),

    The moment the fight should have been stopped was when sharkey got that look of pain on his face when dempsey hit him in the nutts, and he turned to the referee. Right there, stop the fight...give Sharkey time to recover. Take away a point from Dempsey or DQ him if Sharkey can't recover from that left hook to the face(which happened after he was hit illegally in the ballls)....The fight stops once Dempsey goes low. Simple as that.



    people, look at Sharkey's face before Dempsey hits him with a left hook to the head. Can't you see he has a look of pain on his face? You think hes the greatest actor in the world or something? He doesn't get that look of pain on his face until the final low blow lands flush on sharkey's crottch.
     
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Maybe Bowe should have protected himself at all times vs Golota.
     
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Janitor, Edward

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So4fmOwRxqA

    Please look at the slow mo at 1:07. You see clearly that Dempsey hit him right in the Ballls with a right uppercut. Plain and Clear. Look at Sharkey's facial expression right after that punch lands? It's a look of pain. Next you see Sharkey's hands lower down toward his crottch area, then you see sharkey's left knee dip as if he's lowering his body. These are facts...do we agree on this?