Ketchel vs Johnson news read.

POST ONE LIE I HAVE POSTED HERE. I'll counter it with three by you. DEAL?
What a fighter does outside the ring does not impact on my rating his ability as a boxer.

You habitually derogate three champions Ali,Louis& Johnson all three are/.were black .
You habitually boost up three other champions Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko and Jim Jeffries,all three were /are white.

You are what you are and everyone knows it.
Now go to sleep, and with luck you won't wake up in the morning.

 

Why make a statement that infers you are about to post photos that are not old and fuzzy and then post 19 old and fuzzy photos?

The film is very clear Ketchel lands a right hand that moves Johnson in round one.

The San Fran Call who were at ringside were very descriptive of the left that landed in round 7. Best punch of the fight, jaw swelled right away visible to the spectators. I can't imagine they were just making it up.

Ketchel got beat up. Who takes that kind of a torturous beating in a rehe****d fixed fight? Johnson in this fight fought as he always did.. Slowly and methodically beat his opponent down. Seems like just another fight for Johnson and no signs he was fighting anything that was rehe****d to my eyes.

 

Read the entire Call reports just now.

The ref stated Johnson was hit by a wild right hand by Ketchel behind his ear in the 12th round that knocked him down.

The Calls round by round of the fight shows they saw a wild right to Johnsons arm which produced the KD in round 12. So the implication here is a faked KD.

There is a headline within the newspaper which states "crowd thinks Johnson fell to help moving pictures".

 

Uhh, those are stills from my copy of the film. Its crystal clear and clearly shows the knockdowns and everything else.

Still shots would be clearer (And are) which is why I pointed out the noticeable lack of a bruise or swelling in the two still shots which clearly show Johnson's face after the KD.

 

Whatever dip****. Those photos are stills from the film which is clearer than anything you will see anywhere else on that fight. Dont get butthurt because the actual photographic evidence refutes your dumbass claim.

 

All I see are old fuzzy photos and I am looking at them on a new Mac. The film footage is clearer and you can watch everything unedited unlike looking at singular handpicked fuzzy photos.

The only claim I have is that Ketchel hit Johnson with a right hand in round one that did appear to move/stagger him. It's quite evident if you watch the film. You stated it never occurred. You were wrong.

The Call eye witness viewing of the fight they state, not I, that Ketchels left during round seven was the best punch of the fight and caused swelling on Johnsons jaw. Didn't you state you have access to the entire fight film? Why not post round seven so we all can look at it and judge ourselves that is as long as we are sure it's indeed round 7.

Ketchel took one heck of a pounding. The Call mentions blood coming from his nose, mouth and you can see this just watching the film of the bout......lots of blood. Johnson even went to Ketchels body making the smaller man wince. Ketchel went through hell for a fixed bout. You would think they would have rehe****d a more even exchange rather than such a one sided beat down.

I need to re read Gunboats Smiths interview. Did he state the bout was fake or the KD in round 12 was faked? Headlines show that many in the audience felt Johnson faked the KD to enhance the film of the fight.

 

Adams book does not mention a hard right hand from Ketchel, in the 1st rd nor does it mention
Johnson staggering or stutter stepping in any way.

Both the Chronicle and The Call agreed it was an utterly tame round and was all Johnson's.

The Examiner said Ketchel was trying to get Johnson to lead and that Johnson was playing a clever boxing game it did not mention a hard right from Ketchel or Johnson doing any" steps".

The only right hand punch that Ketchel threw to the head that's mentioned in any of those papers is a right hand that landed on Johnson's shoulder.


Johnson and Ketchel sparred for nearly a half minute without exchangingthen, " Johnson shot his left to the face with lighting rapidity and Ketchel was forced back to the ropes but wriggled away" "In the clinches Johnson easily handled Ketchel.His gold teeth glistened as he smiled".
"Johnson landed a left to the face and Ketchel swung a right on the ribs.
A left struck Stan's forehead .Both clinched a great deal.Johnson's left jabs were quick but light,and he was very wary.He put in two more jabs and blocked a left for the stomach.Jack score with two more jabs.Stan backed him to the ropes and drove a left to the stomach.Jack landed another jab".
Summarising.
Ketchel landed three punches, one a right on the shoulder and a left and right to the body.

Johnson floored Ketchel for a count of 6 in the 2nd rd but did not follow up his advantage the papers said he toyed with ketchle the remainder of the round.

In the 4th round," Johnson lifted Ketchel up like a baby and carried him to ring centre five feet from where the clinch started Johnson's strength was obvious".

In the 6th round,"Johnson sent Ketchel reeling with a left to the body,and dropped him to his haunches with another straight left".

"Johnson had a good lead in the round,though it looked as if he was holding back."

In the 7th round. And this is the round the disagreement is mainly over.

"Johnson swoopedin with two lefts on the nose.Stan countered with a hard left hook to the body.Johnson peppered the sore nose with his left causing it to bleed freely.Jack used his left ina punishing way,reaching the face repeatedly.Ketch swung his left to the body.
In a clinch.Johnson began pumping in right uppercuts for the first time reaching face and body. "

"Suddenly Ketchel swung his left with terrific force and it caught Johnson solidly on the jaw,raising a big lump there ,that immediately was perceptible to the spectators.It was by far Ketchel's cleanest and best blowof the fight and the immense crowd rose to its feet yelling gleefully.

However the Examiner disagreed with this version saying that the left Johnson caught on the glove and made a noise,the crowd cheered thinking ketchel had landed but Johnson laughed"

The question is which paper do you want to believe? My query would be IF the punch landed on Johnson's jaw and raised a visible lump ,why is that lump not visible at any time in the rest of the fight |? And WHY is it not visible after the fight when Johnson is standing still looking down at the unconscious Ketchel?
Furthermore why did no reporters mention this lump the next day when they interviewed Johnson?
Surely white reporters would have been eager to play up any damage that Ketchel had inflicted on the black champion?

On the contrary they stated he was unmarked.
As to the knockdown, and one posters assertions that Johnson was dazed when he got up and that stories of a fake only surfaced after Ketchel's death
. The San Francisco Chronicle the day after the fight said:
"To the writer and to 90% of those who were in a position to follow closely what was happening the punch seemd to glance around the back of Johnson's head.apparently also it had little force,and there was genuine surprise when Johnson dropped down spun around on his knees with a smile on his face and took advantage of the count that the rules of the prize ring gave him" This qwriter noted that it was significant and tellinghtat as soon as Johnson rose he was not so dazed as to be prevented from immediately rushing Ketchel more viciously than he had at any previous stage of the match and had so much force behind his right ald elft swung inrapid succession that the right glove showed where Ketchel's teeth pierced the leather.
Ketchel's front teeth had been knocked out.
The timing of Johnson's sudden increase of speed and power seemed interesting particularly given that he had never thrown like that at any earlier point in the fight".
"The Chronicle too wondered if it was a legitimate knock down of Johnson.It conceded that it might have been a straight knockdown and that Johnson could not save himself from going down,but"the writer did not see a punch that would have such an efectf,and it must also be remembered that such and ending would be of fast assistance to the moving pictures".

"The strong suspicion was that the punch was not that good and Johnson intentionally went down to increase the market value of the films so that he could make eve more money. Noted to was the fact that Ketchel was apparently too weak to have landed a atelling blow in the ninth,and the way he fairly collapsed when Johnson put his force behind two punches is the best indication of his condition".

Another writer for the Chronicle said even when Johnson was down it was obvious he was planning his opponents downfall
like a cat ready to spring and a few seconds later completed the job.
"Whether Ketchel hurt Johnson when he half knocked
him down will always be a disputed point,but the fact that a few seconds later the white man was in the land of dreams cannot be disputed".

So, that's two next day versions of the right hand that Ketchel threw in the 7th round. And no visible evidence of a large lump on Johnson's jaw either in the film or in the stills Klompton has provided,nor any mention of the lump in the next day interviews with Johnson.
That's three writers the next day questioning the validity of the knockdown and stating Johnson was in full possession of his senses when he was on the floor.
I hope Adam will forgive me quoting his absolutely top class excellent biography of Johnson. I heartily recommend both volumes to anyone who wishes to understand the man and his times, and to put to rest some of the fairy tales spun on here about him.

 

Suggestion.....stop reading and watch the first round of the fight. YouTube. Look for a good copy. You can see Ketchel trying to set up the right and it lands.

 

Well I'm glad I took the trouble to type all that!
By the way I first watched the Johnson v Ketchel fight in1964 whenI bought it from Black Hawk on Super mm.
I then bought it onVideo, and I now have it on dvd in HD where I can watch it on a 50" screen

F*CK YOU!

 

Have no idea why you are cursing. I bought the 8 mm film back in the early 70's. However on YouTube you can easily look at sequences back and forth easily. It's only recently that I was able to see this punch and its effect. My experience with film from these early eras are that idiosyncrasies are very difficult to determine unless you know the sport technically and you are willing to with effort look for them. So again watch the first round on YouTube and you will see Ketchel setting up Johnson for his right hand and he then lands his right hand. Johnson then does a stutter step as a result. As I have stated no knock against Johnson. He is one of my fav all time fighters.

 

Have no idea why you are cursing. I bought the 8 mm film back in the early 70's. However on YouTube you can look at sequences back and forth easily. It's only recently that I was able to see this punch and its effect. My experience with film from these early eras are that idiosyncrasies are very difficult to determine unless you know the sport technically and you are willing to with effort look for them. So again watch the first round on YouTube and you will see Ketchel setting up Johnson for his right hand and he then lands his right hand. Johnson then does a stutter step as a result. As I have stated no knock against Johnson. He is one of my fav all time fighters.

 

No use arguing with him. Hes a ****ing idiot who hasnt made a post yet that didnt have some factually incorrect content yet thinks he is privy to some secret knowledge of the sport. Hes not much different than Mendoza in that he ignores whats right in front of him and sees what he wants to. I have no time for such.

 

No one twists history more than Kompton. King of boxing revisionists.

 

Im not the one pretending Stanley Ketchel wobbled Jack Johnson and looking at pristine screen caps of a first generation copy of Johnson-Ketchel straight from the original film and pretending he can see better quality on ****ing youtube moron, and thats after thinking they were actual still photographs (Which just illustrates how good the quality of those stills are). But whatever, keep up the bull****, I have fun pointing out ALL of your mistakes.