Should the Catskill team get more credit than Tyson himself for 85-88?

Every trainer deserves credit when it comes to showing someone how to box, on the other hand though Tyson was the one in the ring doing the boxing so he was the biggest piece of it all. I don't see any other fighters doing what he did and being as good as he was with his style. Joe Frazier and Jack Dempsey would probably be the other two boxers who could have great success fighting out of the peek-a-boo style. Even with not training hard, doing drugs, and his tumultuous lifestyle Mike Tyson still had ring success post Rooney and was able to win two belts after coming out of prison. He only lost to other good fighters up until the end of his career where he was just absolutely shot and out of shape. He really was a special guy when it came to boxing and he had some natural gifts.

 

I can understand the argument that Cus gets too much credit relative to Atlas, Rooney and the other Catskill folks but suggesting that they deserve more credit than Tyson himself is strange and dehumanizing. He wasn't Frankenstein's monster--he was a troubled kid with incredible physical gifts and astronomical potential before Cus even agreed to take him in.

 

Short answer: Because he was the one in the ring. The boxing public would probably think about Rooney a LOT differently if he had gone on to have a more successful post-Tyson career instead of succumbing to personal problems.

 

That works both ways though doesn't it, or are you admitting the loss of Rooney had no affect on Tyson's performances??

 

Tyson still had to do the work.

 

aside from the advantageous boxing mentoring, he would have been in jail pretty quick without the Catskill people.

 

I would split it 50-50 between Tyson and the Catskill cree.

Boy.... sure it is Planet Tyson over here!

 

In what world does saying that Tyson deserves more credit than his trainers mean that the loss of Rooney had no effect on his performances? You're trying too hard.

 

Well of course every boxer on the planet deserve more credit than their trainer now don't they??

 

Wrong as usual SOME fighters need certain trainers to PUSH them or train them or put them on the path otherwise they are not Those fighters. Moorer/Atlas Wlad/Stewart Tyson/Damato

Louis/Blackburn etc,..as examples neither of these fighters would have had the success without the trainers they had,first and foremost you are only as good as your trainer in general,with specific styles like Wlad/Tyson and Louis they needed a special hand and that came from the TRAINER...if there were numerous Tysons out there I guess they wouldn't have waited decades for him would they? SOME trainers do deserve more credit for the art they sculpt,without the right trainer you cannot perform at your best its that simple.,Tyson without Cus's instilling his knowledge into him equals NO Tyson.. more schooling for you junior! :boxx

 

He would have destroyed himself eventually. But there's no way whatsoever that buster Douglas would have beaten him .holyfield would have always given him a hard fight . I think he would have walked through Lewis under Rooney .

 

I agree with the perspective where they are equally important or as a whole package. Tyson wasn't the same after leaving Rooney, that is clear by watching his fights but the catskill team needed someone as physically gifted as Tyson to even accomplish what Tyson did accomplish. It goes both ways and that's why having all those pieces in place made Tyson very successful and more disciplined. Unfortunately Tyson's biggest weakness was the mental aspect which was lacking post Rooney, he needed some guidance and training discipline whether he'd admit it or not. Also that was a very good point about Wlad, pre-Emanuel Steward he was in trouble and Steward turned him around and he's been a smart fighter ever since (optimizing his talents to their best potential).