For how long do you consider Wlad to have been the true HW champ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Oct 11, 2015.


Page 1 of 13
  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,178
    Sep 15, 2009
    It's something that's been debated for a while. Right now there is no doubt that he's the champ but for a long time there have been mitigating factors preventing his universal recognition.

    Here are the main 3 arguments I've seen

    1) when Wlad beat Byrd he was number 1 and has been ever since thus that's when his championship claim began
    2) when Wlad beat Chagaev it was against his highest available challenger, he was awarded the ring belt and thus that's when his claim began
    3) when Wlad beat Povetkin it was his first 1 v 2 bout thus that's when his reign began.

    As well as these 3 key fights there's also the issue of the returning champ in Vitali. Johnson had the beat Jeffries, Frazier had to beat Ali, Holmes had to beat Ali, does this mean Vitali was able to reclaim his throne since Wlad didn't challenge him and there'd been no 1v2 bout in his absence?

    Given that Vitali is now permanently retired and Wlad is now universally recognised I'm just curious as to how people view the interim period.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 11, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 11, 2015
    #1
  2. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    After beating Haye.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 11, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 11, 2015
    #2
  3. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,134
    67
    Sep 14, 2010
    Number 1.

    IMO there has to be a champion at all times.

    No one else beat the # 1 ranked fighter, Wlad did.

    If someone has something different, I'd like to see who the champ was instead of Wlad. I'm sure I'll get a nice big laugh for the day.
     
    brb, Oct 11, 2015
    brb, Oct 11, 2015
    #3
  4. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    24,293
    18,045
    Apr 26, 2006
    :deal
     
    heerko koois, Oct 11, 2015
    heerko koois, Oct 11, 2015
    #4
  5. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    So Tyson was undisputed champ for you after beating Berbick? Lewis after beating McCall?
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 11, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 11, 2015
    #5
  6. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

    31,349
    29,583
    Apr 4, 2005
    After he unified with Haye, that made it clear he wasn't just another title holder but a unified champion who had the right to claim to be the true champion, though of course the return of Vitali muddied the waters a little. But as much as I like Vitali, his opposition during his 2nd run as a champion wasn't good enough to deny Wlad the number 1 spot after beating Haye.
     
    Brighton bomber, Oct 11, 2015
    Brighton bomber, Oct 11, 2015
    #6
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,674
    27,388
    Feb 15, 2006
    I would call him lineal from when he beat Chagaev.
     
    janitor, Oct 11, 2015
    janitor, Oct 11, 2015
    #7
  8. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

    41,974
    4,030
    Sep 22, 2010
    since vitali retired he cant be accused of ducking him.
     
    HerolGee, Oct 11, 2015
    HerolGee, Oct 11, 2015
    #8
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,178
    Sep 15, 2009
    He didn't duck his brother.

    What I'm saying is though, Vitali was consensus champ when he retired, he returned to title action and no one was able to beat him. Is there any credence to that line of thought, that to be the true champ you had to beat the previous champ.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 11, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 11, 2015
    #9
  10. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,134
    67
    Sep 14, 2010
    I'm not following where you are going with this.

    Spinks and Holyfield would have been for me.
     
    brb, Oct 11, 2015
    brb, Oct 11, 2015
    #10
  11. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

    61,763
    24,628
    Jul 21, 2012
    After beating Povetkin - a fight he should have lost , so never.
     
    dinovelvet, Oct 11, 2015
    dinovelvet, Oct 11, 2015
    #11
  12. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

    4,937
    787
    Aug 17, 2015
    Tyson and Lewis were clearly better than Spinks and Holyfield, but they still had to overcome them to be regarded as the champs.

    Haye fits that role for Wlad. It's easy to say in retrospect that Wlad was better, the same way Tyson was better than Spinks, but that wasn't the case back then. Lots of guys still had doubts about Wlad and many thought Haye could pull it off. Hence, after Wlad beat him, and won another major strap for him, he was recognized as the man by everyone.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 11, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 11, 2015
    #12
  13. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,661
    2,556
    Nov 6, 2011
    I don't necessarily think it's that important, I'd agree with Haye though. The most important thing is he's cleared almost any doubt that he is the best heavyweight of his generation, unless you prefer Vitali's thinner resume, but potentially higher H2H rating.
     
    Webbiano, Oct 11, 2015
    Webbiano, Oct 11, 2015
    #13
  14. brb

    brb Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,134
    67
    Sep 14, 2010
    I don't think you have to wait for a credible challenge to be considered the champ.

    I think it depends on who you beat to become the champ.

    Wlad beat the #1 ranked fighter since there wasn't a unanimous champion.
     
    brb, Oct 11, 2015
    brb, Oct 11, 2015
    #14
  15. Joe.Boxer

    Joe.Boxer Chinchecker Full Member

    7,630
    1,123
    Jan 8, 2011
    Do you have learning disabilities?
     
    Joe.Boxer, Oct 11, 2015
    Joe.Boxer, Oct 11, 2015
    #15
Page 1 of 13