Dempsey & Louis" Trained" Today?

It depends on what they want to do and how well they do it.

Dempsey would probably be a LHW or MW, if he bulks up he'd still have a smallish frame for a modern HW, think Adamek or Moorer type issues.

Louis probably boxes at cruser and then HW. He'd possibly develop Holyfield type strength, which still wouldn't make him a particularly strong guy in the division.

They'd still have the same weaknesses and both would lose badly to Wlad regardless of how strong they get.

 

If they grew up today and took up boxing now they would have the same core potential they always had. It's deciding if the modern competition would take them all the way toward fulfilling it in quite the same way. Fighters challenging for titles at a much older age and with fewer fights is a bit different to the Dempsey and Louis Times.

They would be stronger. They would be heavier. They would not need to be 15 round fighters anymore so the pace would be different. and they would also be fighting with bigger gloves that would require less pin point accuracy.so again it gets back to technique needed and required now and the level of recent competition. Would that develop them both in the same way?

At the end of the day they certainly both would adapt in order to be successful. Every bit as successful as is required to be on top today. But totally different technical and physical looking fighters.

And when you think about it , that's how heavyweight boxing has evolved, the equipment, rules and training has made it that way. The fighters have to suit the circumstance. If we get back to old rules, equipment and training then heavyweight boxing will be totally different than it is now. It would be as different as heavyweight boxing was in another era. It would then require champions of the like who were successful in that era rather than the oafs we have now.

Who wants an oafish version of Joe Louis? Even if he cleans up again.

 

Louis would KO Wlad within 5 rounds. Night and day skill set.

 

How would Louis develope that skill set without Jack Blackburn?

 

Not quite sure how you feel they would lose badly to Wlad regardless.

Look at who Wlad has fought. Frankly the list is awful. It's not like he has his brother's chin. I've never seen Wlad in with a guy who throws a feint, or slips a jab, or can actually throw a combination. At best his flat footed combination lumbers forward head butting his jab until they get tired, then he finishes them off with a hook off the jab.

 

I think his skills were learned before 1942, not after.

 

The idea is prime Louis would KO any Wlad. No fighter gets koed by low skilled hwts like Wlad has and then beats an ATG like Louis.

 

I don't think either one of them had the frames to be particularly big by today's standards. With weight training and the right diet, Joe Louis might have been a muscular 210-215.. But that wouldn't help him much from about the mid 90's onward. Dempsey could have been a decent sized cruiser in a modern era or a heavyweight during the 60's and 70's with additional muscle gain.

 

Dempsey was 6'1 with 77" reach.
Louis was 6'2 with 77" inch reach
Haye is 6'3 with 78" reach.
Sanders 6'4 with 77" reach.
Brewster 6'2 with 77" reach.
Adamek 6'1 with 75" reach.
Byrd 6'1 with 74" reach.

I think Dempsey and Louis in the modern era would be more than capable of being competitive with Wlad and beating others.

 

At age 28, Dempsey weighed 234 at the outset of his training for Tommy Gibbons, and described himself later in life by saying, "I was just a big kid with blessed with a good punch." Louis also weighed 234 while boxing exhibitions while serving in the Army, so he was hardly sedentary when in uniform.

Both competed at a time when a premium was placed on minimizing weight. Gene Tunney's expressed bias was the prevalent sentiment, that to be a top heavyweight, one shouldn't weigh much beyond a maximum of 195 pounds.

Neither Dempsey or Louis were what might be described as "fat" at 234. In retirement, running along the beach in a swimsuit, Dempsey's physique was perfectly fine, not steroid cut, but also with no love handles or loose flesh hanging over his waist band.

With modern sensibilities concerning heavyweight size, both would fit right in today, just as Bronko Nagurski would on the NFL gridiron.

As huge as George Foreman was and is, he scaled 213 for Peralta I, then was described during his second career as a "surprisingly 'svelte' 256" for Bigfoot Martin. As individuals, I expect both Louis and Dempsey to have scaled around the 215 that Tyson did for his peak fights, while Mike might have been around 200 during the 1920s and 1930s.

Keep in mind that Ali came in at 201-1/2 for Henry Cooper II. We have actually seen such changes as this thread question poses repeatedly take place over the course of the careers of actual individual heavyweight champions. I have zero doubt that Dempsey and Louis, as they were during their primes, quickly adapt and fit right into the world of 2015 regarding any necessary weight increase. So far as height and reach are concerned, Tyson should have wiped any notion of his lack of height and reach being a modern handicap for the foreseeable future.

If you want the visual reality of a 5'7" heavyweight competing with distinction against an aging monster like Foreman, Qawi's height was equal to that of Tommy Burns, and he actually did win some rounds against George.

So far as the reality of 167 pound Fitz winning the HW Title from Corbett, well, Michael Spinks weighed 170 for David Sears two bouts before upsetting Holmes.

Could Burns and Fitz have broken 200 pounds using modern training methods like Qawi and the Jinx did? (I'm not asking if Fitz and Burns would have been champions today, just pointing out that in recent decades, competitors their height and weight actually did achieve what is being questioned here of the larger Dempsey and Louis.)

Incidentally, the tale of the tape for both Michael Spinks and Joe Louis is virtually identical. Against Tyson, the fatal flaw of Michael Spinks may have been that of one of the slowest starters in HW Title history against one of the very fastest. I thought Pooney was going to kill him, but the Jinx went much further as a heavyweight than anybody ever expected by the time Tyson came along, so he gets an earned free pass for that final outcome. (Plus, we can be pretty confident Michael Spinks never ingested illegal growth enhancers, because his physique didn't change as he gained all that weight for Holmes, but pretty much remained the same, as has been the case in retirement. Most of the muscular weight he gained with Mackie Silverstone's plyometric based physical training was primarily evident in his previously skinny calves and thighs. It was a far cry from how Holyfield packed on poundage. Qawi didn't like Michael's "running" during their 15 rounder, but has never accused the Jinx of cheating with steroids. He's pretty outspoken about his conviction that Holyfield was juicing egregiously.)

 

There is not a man dead or alive, past or present, would have had an easy time with Louis. He was that close to perfection. Why should he weigh more when he hit like a greased sledge hammer at 200 pounds? I cannot find the exact quote, but Ron Lipton wrote something to the effect of most of today's huge heavyweights would be picking their teeth out of Joe's glove after about six rounds. I honestly believe the K brothers would be included in that group. Without weight training (or steroids), he was stronger and hit harder, faster, and more accurately, with better combinations that Holyfield ever did.

 

"These big guys are easy meat for me."-Dempsey. Neither Dempsey or Louis had any logistical issues with opponents the size of the Klits. Leveraged power is leveraged power, period. Both had the height and reach necessary to reach those jaws, and neither would have any issues going downstairs to the body on either modern opponent.

Present Dempsey or Louis with a huge tall target, and all they'd be doing is licking their chops at the opportunity to tee off on something they couldn't miss with blindfolds on. (Hell, put blindfolds on them against the Klits, both would be thinking pinatas with candy inside! Batter up!)