Do Dives Happen and Why

Well, it isn't easy to beat the bookies and I'm sure they have safeguards in place.

Watching out for betting patterns, for example is surely easier these days because of technology.

Nonetheless, I'm sure situations similar to your example happen all the time. Boxing is unbelievably corrupt and gambling is a big part of boxing. It goes on for sure.

The US Senate published a document following its investigation into corruption in boxing entitled "Corruption in Professional Boxing 1993". It's online and well worth a read; should give any boxing fan a greater insight into the way corrution works in boxing still today.

 

Do your own research, mate. Fight fixing definitely goes on and always has done.

If you believe that no fighter has ever thrown a fight due to promotional / managerial pressure and / or to make a killing at the bookies then you are somewhat naive.

What I would also add, however, is that when a fight is fixed at the top end of the sport the boxers themselves will rarely be in on it. It is important that the fight is genuine and, as you have pointed out, most hungry young boxers will fight to win in anycase, but not necessarily always.

Money, pressure, debt, promises, corruption and such are all powerful motivators. It all depends on what is at stake, I guess

Corruption in boxing tends to come from promotional and managerial relationships. That whole "A side" advantage that in house fighters get is just the tip of the corruption iceberg.

How many bad decisions have you seen at the top end? It goes on, of course it does.

And I'm not trying to talk myself out of anything.

You don't believe boxers ever take dives, that's fine.

However, I'm of the opinion that it has certainly happened in the past and will still happen from time to time in the future. It maybe rare, but to say it never happens is unrealistic.

 

I would be SHOCKED, absolutely SHOCKED if they was any corruption in boxing today. SHOCKED, I say.

BTW...I put a tooth under my pillow today. Do you think the tooth fairy will leave me a million dollars?

 

And if you can't get a dive contracted, get a retroactive waiver.

 

What was that ****? Some kind of joke?
That was possibly the worst fight I've ever seen. There's grade school kids with more talent than those two knuckkeheads.

 

Article about fight fixing / taking dives from The Independant (1999).

Check it out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...on google in any case, just do some research.

 

Seldon was a china-chin with no heart. He just looked big and scary.

 

There are a lot of different types of "dives" in boxing.

Some boxers who take dives just use boxing to make a couple of extra bucks and they have no cares at all about being a winning fighter or what their record looks like.

I've been to fight cards where, and I'm not joking, four or five of the undercard boxers all showed up in the same van.

They were all from the same state. They all got in the ring, took a body shot in the first or second round, went down, got paid, all got back in the van and all left together.

That happens all the time on the club circuit.

A promoter will sign a few boxers, he's trying to build their records, he calls a guy who manages a bunch of no-names who appear on everyone's records as losses. The "losing" fighters all show up, go through the motions, go down, and leave. Most of these losing fighters know enough about boxing to keep their hands up, and when a hard enough punch lands, they just go down and stay down. Then get up when the count reaches ten.

They are easy to spot.

In these situations, the promoter doesn't say "Go down in the fifth" or anything like that. They have a decent fighter, the other guy has a bunch of bad fighters, and the agreement is let's all make a couple dollars. The guy bringing in the losing fighters knows who he has, and the losing fighters all know they can make $500 or so just moving around the ring for a couple minutes before taking one hard punch or two.

You can watch any of Shannon Briggs' recent opponents and see the guys who take a body shot, go down and stay down in a round or so. Or who was holding their gloves up, got punched in the gloves and fell down and didn't get up.

Briggs' record is actually filled with them. An obscene number of them, actually.

There are also "dives" at the higher levels which are similar to the ones on the club circuit. Nobody who saw the Tyson-Seldon fight believes Seldon was too hurt to continue or that he even went down with a hard punch the first time.

Some boxers, in situations where they have fear, just decide to take the money and run. Again, no one says "Go down in this round." Seldon made $5 million for the Tyson fight. He was looking for a big payday after he won the title. He got it. He knew he couldn't win. So, instead of just taking a beating for a half hour and losing, he bailed out early.

Tim Witherspoon recently claimed he took a dive against Bonecrusher Smith in their rematch, because he hated fighting for Don King and wanted to get out of his deal. So he purposely went down against Smith. That rings a little hollow, however, when you consider he didn't stay down until Smith knocked out Witherspoon's front teeth. And Spoon, after losing the belt, signed with Dennis Rappaport and they spent years trying to get Don King to give Spoon a shot at Tyson.

However, Witherspoon IS an example of an older boxer who was once good, who simply finds it easy to collect a check based on his name and decide that night whether he's into it or not.

Tim talks in his book about taking several dives in his career when he was older, because he just didn't give a damn anymore. He'd show up, get a check, and like those other boxers who came to the fight in a van, just stopped fighting when he felt like it. Usually in the corner between rounds. If he could win with minimal effort, fine. If not, just quit and go home.

When most people hear the word "dive" though, it conjures up the image of those 1940s movies where one guy who is much BETTER than another guy is told he has to lose. And he's ****ed because he knows he's better, but the mob is going to kill him and his family if he doesn't, or something like that.

That's not really the case today. Especially for high-profile, televised fights.

If you're good enough to win a world title, for instance, it's easier and more economically beneficial to just win the title. You can make more defending it than you'll get taking a dive.

There was a famous match in the early 90s involving Ray Mercer and Jesse Ferguson. Rid**** Bowe was defending against Michael Dokes in televised main event on HBO. On an untelevised undercard, Mercer, who was a top contender, fought Ferguson (the journeyman).

The plan was for Bowe and Mercer to win, and the following morning a press conference was already scheduled to announce the Bowe-Mercer title fight. But Mercer showed up in terrible shape. And Ferguson was beating him. During the fight itself, between throwing punches and in clinches, Mercer kept offering money to Ferguson to quit or go down. People at ringside could hear him. They recalled hearing things like "I'll have the money for you Monday." And "what do you say, Jesse?"

Ferguson, who was winning, just ignored him and won a 10-round decision. Afterward, Mercer was tried for attempting to fix a sporting event and the HBO film was seized (because they filmed the undercard even though it hadn't aired). But the audio of the film couldn't pick up any definite offers to Ferguson, so the case didn't go anywhere.

And the promoters used the fact that Mercer bribed Ferguson to hype the rematch between the two.

But Ferguson (who ended up fighting Bowe in Mercer's place and got hammered) felt he was winning, and he was better than Mercer, so he wasn't sitting down for him.

At the level where a title shot is on the line, there's too much at stake to let someone else who you can beat get a crack at the title instead of you.

 

great post :good

 

:good Good post.

I read it all, nice detail.

You're right, of course.