Could Patterson have given Liston a better fight?

It is hard to see how he could have done worse, let’s put it like that!

 

Exactly!:good

 

Patterson admitted that he should have worked the ring and made it harder to Liston to find him, instead of trying to take the big bully head on.

It was within Patterson's capabilities, if you look at the work he did during the latter part of his career. But when he fought Liston, he blindly believed in the aggressive "peek-a-boo" style taught by D'Amato, despite the fact that Liston was clearly bigger, stronger and more powerful.

Unfortunately for Patterson, he was never defensive-minded enough to avoid one of Liston's big bombs landing eventually. Even the Liston that fought Ali, would've have taken Ali's head clean off with some of the punches he threw if Ali had been a little shorter and slower to react.

Liston also seemed to have an impeccable timing for his uppercuts. The moment he saw Patterson bending his knees, he would throw one flush on Patterson's chin, before Floyd had even finished the motion. The bobbing & weaving was a major part of Patterson's defense, and it only served to work against him when he fought Liston.

A lot of things can be said about Liston but he had an instinct for brawling and he did not shy away from trading bombs when somebody came at him like Patterson did. Chasing people around the ring wasn't really his game.

 

There's an article in an old boxing magazine I have where people before the first Patterson-Liston fight are discussing who they think will win, and many thought Floyd would not only win, but win by KO, over Liston based on Liston's fight with Eddie Machen.

People thought Patterson was better than Machen. Machen had gone the distance with Sonny. And Floyd had knocked out everyone he'd beaten in title fights. Nobody had gone the distance. So Patterson winning by stoppage - sort of like Ali did in the first Liston fight - was considered a real possibility by some.

Since Liston won so decisively, nobody brings that up anymore. Sort of like how many people thought Cuevas could beat Hearns before their fight. Those picks disappear like people want to forget their bad picks on message boards today.

But I think it would've been interesting to see Patterson vs. Liston in the WBA heavyweight tournament in the late 60s and have seen the Liston vs. Elmer Rush against the Patterson who faced Quarry twice.

Liston-Rush clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvLfPhhJa3o

 

Great points Hookie! Floyd was HOF!
How many former HW (or any division) champions were, arguably, better AFTER losing their title?
Ain't many...if any.
My hero, forever and always. The toughest fighter he ever fought was, quite simply, himself.

 

Today liston is a cruiser weight

 

Of course! rarely does a fighter do everything perfectly. But on patterson's bestnight and Liston's worst(within reason of course) Liston would've still caught him.
Liston had the stylistic advantage(Thats a BIG advantage right away)
Liston was around 215, Patterson 190 so these days Patterson could've made LHW and Liston couldve made cruiser or been a smallish HW.
Liston had the reach AND one of the best jabs ever
Liston had a good chin, Patterson had ok power against men smaller than Liston. To even reach that chin Patterson would have to get past the jab and the reach and would still be in danger because Liston could fight on the inside
Patterson had a shaky chin.
No way he culdve won IMO

 

Maxim 177 lbs
Patterson 168 lbs.

Scores all for Maxim:
4-3-1
5-3
7-1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJYY_OY8Qyg

Interesting to see Floyd at "Super MW".

 

What is the cruiserweight upper weight limit?

 

No he wouldn't be! He was 208-218-ish in most of his 58-62 fights and if he'd been born later, he'd probably be a 225-30 pound wrecking machine had he been prime in the 21st century.

An old janitor once told me that Floyd fought the 'people's fight' against Sonny instead of in a more calculating mode. Lot of pressure on his tortured mind; President Kennedy calling him and telling him to win, etc...But Floyd was, quite basically, a slugger first and that proved to be his undoing. All of us know his ATG speed at heavy and those ATG combos, perhaps the fastest hands of any heavy but we never saw those lightning combos with any regularity unfortunately.
Floyd wanted to land that left hook and, if he landed it clean or semi-clean, you..were..hurt I don't care if you were 180 lbs. or 220 lbs.!
Lastly, I don't think ANY Heavy in ANY era could KNOCKOUT Patterson. Face down? Out like a light? No way! Liston said he never hit anyone harder feeling the impact of his punches deep into his shoulder. P i s s on the china chin nonsense about Floyd.
A Patterson-Liston 3 in the late 60's? Floyd could have won IMO but it doesn't prove anything as Sonny was an aging shell and IMO Floyd was a better fighter after the 2 Sonny fights.
I'm out...

 

I don't think that Patterson was paralyzed with fear. It was just a terrible matchup for Floyd. I don't think that he could ever have done much better. Floyd's style was not suited for running and he wasn't strong enough to tie Liston up in the clinches. The peek a boo and bobbing and weaving provided nothing more than target practice for Liston. Throw in the size difference and the chin problem and the unchangeable recipe for disaster is unalterable.

 

Well how the hell could he have done worse?