who is the MOST SHOT FIGHTER in the ring OF ALL TIME?

Geez, so many over the yrs, Ali/Berbick Camacho/Leonard, / Taylor / Norris, Mugabi/Norris / R.Jones (any of his last few fights). Hearns / Barkley/ in fact most fighters even the average ones didn't know when to quit.

 

Well, I didn't really try to have it removed. I simply stated in the comments section that nobody wanted to see a shell of a once great fighter get his a@@ kicked by a guy he would have easily beaten in his prime, while being used for his name. Saad was so shot, that fight never should have happened.

If you think that is censorship, so be it. You are allowed to get off your high horse now.

 

Not because he wanted to come in that light. It was Baltimore in August, training conditions were hot and humid, and he had been fighting a cold the week before. Reports described him as "thin, almost gaunt," and he said himself he had no zip.

Wanted to come in at 208, and was actually a pound less at 202 a day or two before the weigh-in. Stated afterwards that he was indeed at least five pounds too light, and dehydration seems to have been the culprit.

He seemed pleased with his KO win at 211 over Savold, but Bivins came just two weeks after he weighed 207 for Brion II in San Francisco. So constant training when not traveling coast to coast and simultaneously fighting a cold without a rest made it a wise decision to take a strength and weight gaining breather prior to Marciano, as he'd earlier done that year between Walker and Agramonte II.

Learned from Conn I that coming in light would not increase his speed, but drain him of strength. He'd also come in dehydrated and under-trained for Schmeling I after having spent too much time in the sun on the golf links. His then regular weight of 198 is deceptive for that one. Being dehydrated compromised his punch resistance for both Billy and Max.

Good thing he got an additional ten pounds on in the two and a half months or so between Bivins and Marciano and even managed two or three winning rounds out of it. As weak as he was for Jimmy, the Rock might've killed him. With Marciano, his body looked a lot stronger, and he was probably in the best shape he could realistically have been in at that stage.

Probably a safe guess that Rocky took on the best prepared version of Joe Louis we saw in the 1950's, and the Bomber did do better against Marciano than Layne, Savold, Matthews and Beshore. He would not have defeated Charles or JJW when Marciano retired him, but Joe might have beaten all of Ezzard's failed challengers, and I don't see Satterfield, Ten Hoff or Baker overcoming him. (Clarence Henry? Well, that might be a good question anyway. Who besides his three successors to the HW Title might have beaten Joe Louis in his final bout?)

As a wrestler in 1956, it didn't look like he attempted any physical training at all.

 

Rid**** Bowe

 

williams takes some beating.

 

Duran vs Joppy was a sad sight.

 

I gotta test this out:

Riddink Bowe? Dink Tiger? Assalyze? Gerry Pooney?

 

John Henry Lewis?

 

Awesome!

 

Definitely not. In fact, this may have been Joe's most impressive first round knockout win, even coming off of Schmeling II. (Bear in mind this was actually the second time Max had been blown out in a rematch following a win in an introductory bout.)

No, JHL was on an excellent streak of activity, had knocked out some big heavyweights, was the reigning LHW Champion, held a win over the man Louis dethroned, another win over the man who ended Joe's amateur career with a defeat (Max Marek), and had stopped monster punchers like Tiger Jack Fox, an embryonic Violent Ray, and held a decision win over Patsy Perroni, the second guy to take Louis the ten round limit. (We have Louis-Ramage II on youtube from a month after Louis-Perroni, Joe regarded Patsy well, and Ramage II suggests a credible achievement for Perroni to have gone the limit with him six weeks earlier.) On paper, JHL was as wholly suitable a challenger for the Bomber as anybody in the first all-black HW Championship bout.

We know he was going blind and needed a final good payday, Joe knew it too, but for me, Louis-JH Lewis is somewhat more akin to Mike Tyson-Michael Spinks.

In 110 previous bouts. JH Lewis had never been stopped. The Bomber was usually pretty active, but since Schmeling I the previous June, he'd been atypically out of action for just over seven months (his longest prewar hiatus), while John Henry had three bouts, and was coming off a championship distance defense over Al Gainer less than three months earlier.

Look at Louis-Schmeling II again, Louis-Roper less than three months later, then see that GIF of Joe repeatedly prying the near 234 pound Galento off the canvas and onto Two-Ton's back with that left hook six months after wiping out JHL.

John Henry Lewis may have been going blind, but so were Langford and Greb before some of their greatest wins. That result reveals more about the monster he was challenging for the big title.

A quick record book cross reference suggests that John Henry Lewis and Paulino Uzcudun may be the only two opponents of Joe Louis that nobody else besides the Bomber ever stopped (and both smartly retired immediately, just like Mike Spinks). Of those opponents who had never been stopped before taking on Louis, and continued on after he knocked them out, he halted Max Baer, JH Lewis, Mauriello and Nathan Mann on his first attempt (but needed a second try to take care of the never previously stopped Pastor).

He wasn't shot, but a wholly qualified challenger who got uniquely wiped out in a way Louis uniquely wiped out and flattened a whole lot of other opponents. He often confirmed it was possible to put certain guys down and out for future adversaries.

Many members of the "Bum of the Month Club" might not be dismissed that way if they'd never squared off with the Bomber.

On reflection, I'm sticking with how I began this lengthy post. Out of 10 opening round career stoppages for Joe Louis:

1) John Henry Lewis (His only career stoppage defeat.)
2) Tami Mauriello (First time he'd ever been stopped.)
3) Buddy Baer II (Barland previously halted Buddy in 7.)
4) Eddie Simms (Reported to be first KO loss in 52 bouts.)
5) Schmeling II (But Gipsy Daniels had been there, done that.)
6) King Levinski (But Max Baer had proved Joe capable of it.)
7) Roper (KOed Perroni on streak to Louis, then KO 8 Barland I.)
8 ) Retzlaff (Big punch, bad chin, hook lunged & countered. Text.)
9) Poreda (On career ending slide, but very solid career.)
10) Kraken (Impressive pro debut against a 27-7-3 veteran.)

I've always considered Biff Bennett and Johnny Davis to have been expecting exhibitions, and they were scheduled for exhibition lengths, so I don't count those.

Eddie Simms might raise some eyebrows, but according to my records, he rebounded from Louis with another 50 bouts before Lem Franklin avenged a prior loss to Simms with a seventh round body shot (in his final prewar fight) five years after Joe knocked him out. In over 100 career matches, Eddie had some good names in his win column before and after Louis, and his remaining two stoppage defeats closed out his career in 1949 when he was 38. (Even then, it took three and four rounds.) I considered placing him third over Buddy because of the Barland stoppage.

Schmeling was 35, and one of those ATG's who was NOT great in rematches, in addition to the other considerations.

King Levinski had bricks in his trunks, but even if he hadn't, Max Baer had already proved in their exhibition that Joe would have done the same thing to a fired up Kingfish.

Roper had previously been blown out in one by Tuffy, Braddock, Tiger Jack and Retzlaff (who could be deadly if he landed in the way Louis didn't give him a chance to). I'd imagine everybody expected Louis-Roper to end in less than a round.

However, Roper still lasted almost a minute longer than Retzlaff, who could hardly have made it easier for Joe than he did. A contrast between one of the longest hooks I've seen attempted on film, countered by one of the shortest hooks to produce an opening knockdown in HW competition. I'm not sure the Bomber's upper arm even left his body as he leaned back from Charley's swing.

Because Simms, Poreda and Kracken are not on film, I have to extrapolate through my records and documentation. Beating Simms is no great shakes, obviously, but blowing him out in a single round is like starching Tiger Ted Lowry at the gate. One didn't do that unless he happened to be the greatest knockout artist in HW history.


Unwinding here after an arduous day of heavy ice removal, so apologies and thanks to anybody who actually took the time to read all this. Typing it out has been helpful for settling down and taking my mind off aching muscles. It's been a long day.

 

people should know about gypsy daniels...he beat schmeling in 1 round..in germany..and before louis did it.

 

Terry Norris vs. Laurent Boudouani

Terry shouldn't have been licensed at that point much less fighting for a title.

 

Ali v holmes and duran v joppy and tyson v mcbride during last 35 years tops it

On a far lower scale curry v jacquot,honeyghan v starling/breland

 

Greg Page unfortunately might have been

 

All of those. Jones Jr really needs to stop. I cant stand watching a guy as great as he was, getting beaten into submission by these guys.,