Liston v Ali: legitimate or not?

Ali had Liston's number plain and simple, he gave him a good whupping in their first fight before Liston quit. He would have done exactly the same in the second fight. Ali definitely landed a shot that surprised Liston and put him down, what happened after is anybody's guess. I personally think Liston wanted out ASAP, wasn't looking forward to another ass kicking against a fighter he couldn't catch at all.

 

The honest answer is I don't know. I think the first was legit but the second was really iffy. Liston looked a shadow of his former self in both fights and seemed to fight differently, too, which looks fishy, but this might just be due to his deterioration and Ali improving at just the right time. Ali seemed to get much bigger and better almost overnight; can you imagine the Ali of the Cooper or Jones fights beating Liston?

 

I'm not going to read what you said because I know it's rubbish.

I will say this though. Muhammad Ali was fixated on sonny liston. Look up a picture of him on a bed holding a picture of sonny liston and staring at it. Ali was always going to beat sonny liston if fate didn't say otherwise.

 

Well yeah because Clay actually did beat Liston the next fight after facing Cooper.

 

Which begs the question how come Ali can hurt Liston, but couldn't hurt china chinned Cooper? How does he take heavy punches from Liston but Cooper nearly had him out with one punch? Do you think Cooper would have lasted more than a couple of rounds with Liston?

This is why people doubt the Liston fights, especially with Liston's connections.

 

Both results were legit. First fight there is absolutely no doubt. Second fight a strong look at all the evidence points to a KO win for Ali. Liston got caught stepping in with a right hand he never saw coming. Ali stopped several other opponents in similar fashion during his first reign. Perfectly timed right hand.

 

Here's why. He was psyched and ready for liston. Ali always rose to a higher level when he had too. Ali always had trouble with a left hook. Liston like foreman had slow heavy punched. The kind Ali could see and either slip or roll with. He got caught clean by Cooper. Liston never hit him clean.

 

Not sure and I don't think we will ever know. Liston took Cleveland William's bombs but goes down from a short right from a so-so puncher??? His quitting in his corner in the first fight was rather odd also. Sonny took a lot of secrets to the grave.

 

I guess styles make fights and as a previous poster said Ali might just have had Liston's number, too. It would have been interesting to see a clean hook of Liston's land on Ali; as I'm sure you know Sonny's was brutal.:good

 

That's boxing for you, things are not set in stone.

 

Do you believe Ali's fights with Bonavena, Quarry, Foreman and Lyle were fixed too? All tough men that rarely were stopped (in Bonavena's and Foreman's case never outside the losses to Ali).

Some things we just never can know why they are.

Norton seemed iron chined against Ali, but folded like a cheap cloth not only against punchers like Foreman, Shavers and ****ey but also against Ramos.

And Ali cracked much tougher chins in the guys' mentioned above, but didn't ever really stop Norton in his tracks.

Frazier hurt the iron chinned Ali as much as anyone, but his punches bounced off Foreman like pity pats.

Hagler seemed half scared of Duran's lead rights but walked right through those of Hearns and Mugabi.

And so on, and so on.

 

Nice post.

 

First one was legit...the second one was a fake