Rocky Graziano vs. Jose Napoles

Graziano;I don't see Napoles boxing a flawless enough fight-and Graziano was dangerous.

 

BIG DEE HERE = Lets get it straight about Napoles he fought a welterweight division that wasn`t a patch on the welterweight division that was in the 40s NOT A PATCH. Napoles wouldn`t have been champion in the 40s as a guy like Fritzie Zivic with Napoles ability to bleed at the drop of a hat would have cut him up with heels and laces. Sugar Ray Robinson and Kid Gavalan would have cut him to ribbons. Fusari and Janiro would both had been champions in the 60s Especially at Jr Middleweight. AND OTHER THAN MONZON NAPOLES
NEVER EVER FOUGHT A MIDDLEWEIGHT. UNLIKE FUSARI AND JANIRO WHO FOUGHT GUYS THAT WERE TRAINED DOWN LT HEAVYWEIGHTS LIKE JAKE LA MOTTA.

 

I think this is a pretty even fight actually,Graziano has the power ,Napoles has the class,Rocky was a small middleweight and Jose a big lightweight.Napoles had issues with cut eyes but he was a wonderfully accurate puncher and a decent hitter.Graziano was a wildman who got Zale on the way out he had serious power in his right and the killer instinct to match it .I think Napoles could pull it off ,though Rocky has a live punchers chance ,imo he was a moderate champion , Napoles several steps above him in ability.By the way Big Dee ,before you start foaming at the mouth I'm nearly 60,and have followed boxing since I was 8 years old ,but I can and do still learn on this site and, imo ,so can you.

 

I've always liked Rocky Graziano, but Jose Napoles would have outclassed him. Rocky had no defense worth speaking of, and he would have been beaten to a pulp by the super accurate Mantequilla. It would gone about 8 rounds with Jose having a field day landing short, deadly left hooks and rights to the body, setting up Rocky for a blistering attack to the head in the eighth, with two knockdowns convincing the ref to stop the fight. They didn't call him Mantequilla for nothing. Napoles was bad medicine for a walk-in slugger, ANY walk-in slugger.

 

Hey buddy, take a chill pill why don`t ya, no need to get so upset over someone having a different opinion than yours. Seeing as you claim you have been following the sport for over 40-50 years, I would think that someone your age would be a tad more mature when engaging in a debate with another adult. Now that I got that out of the way, what is your gripe with me saying that Graz could be hurt and hurt real bad at that?

Rocky didn`t have an iron jaw after all, what he did have was an indomitable will and fighting spirit which meant that unlike other fighters who would look to hold on or clinch to get their bearings back, Rocky would fight it out while still in a daze and trade punches. And for my money doing that against someone as accurate and hard hitting as Napoles is tantamount to suicide as he was so accurate and would especially be so against someone with as porous a defence as Graziano`s.

You keep harping on about Napoles loss to Monzon as if it were some kind of a black eye on his stellar record, yet you seem to completely over the fact that Monzon was an ALL-TIME GREAT MIDDLEWEIGHT and a big one at that, it is not as if Napoles got beaten by some tomato can here now is it? I dunno about you, but I doubt that Graziano would have fared any better and I daresay that he would have had even less success against Carlos than Napoles did, as Monzon was a deadly accurate puncher as well and with Rocky`s chin hanging in the air the way it did it would be a very inviting and easy to reach target to say the least.

Napoles was no punching bag in that fight for the first 4 rounds as you claim, he was doing pretty good in my book considering the huge disparity in size between the two and Graziano sure as **** wouldn`t have done any better.Anyways, I won`t bother going on about this topic as my opinion shall not change on the outcome of this fight. If you feel Graziano was one of the all-time great middleweights/welterweights and would have flattened Napoles like a bug then so be it, but don`t get so touchy when someone else thinks different from you as I did.

 

At first you don't mention cuts, now you seem to be stuck to that mode of thinking. So every top notch fighter that Napoles faces would beat him by cuts stoppage now? If Zivic were able to get the fight stopped on cuts, it's his only chance, otherwise he gets outclassed.

Robinson and Gavilan would've been great fights, with Gavilan/Napoles being about 50/50 the way I see it, though I think Napoles was the more skilled pure boxer of the two.

 

BIG DEE HERE= Why do I have to mention cuts as there a part of the game of which anybody that knows Napoles knows he`s a bleeder and a bad one at that. Why I keep talking about the Monzon fight is very simple as Napoles
never fought a middleweight or any big man above 147lbs. Napoles wasn`t in any part of the fight with Monzon as Carlos used him as a sparring partner
before they stopped it. The thing is that a man who never beat a middleweight of any kind is going to beat one of the most destructive middleweights of the 20th century who absolutely destroyed welterweights.
If Whitey Bimstein had had Graziano train a little harder to make 147 which he could have done we would be talking about Graziano as one of the greatest welterweight champions of all time as Rocky Graziano was a light middleweight at between 152 to 155lbs. usually.

 

A brutal ko for the magnificent Mantequilla..on the order of his one shot demolition of Erlie Lopez in their second bout. Before that would happen, poor Rocky would be totally outclassed.

 

Big Dee, I am one of the few "oldtimers" still kicking on ESB. I saw Rocky
Graziano ,fight ringside many, many times from his prelim days to his
first Zale fight. Graziano was absolutely ruined by the three Zale wars.
He went downhill after that. Young savage Graziano ruined the tough
Welterweight Marty Servo, ending his promising career. Servo as you posted gave prime welterweight Ray Robinson two hellish fights, both
disputed decisions. But the Graziano I remember was at MSG in 1945 when Rocky an 8-1 underdog kod the sensational young puncher Billy Arnold, who was a coming welterweight "Joe Louis". Billy Arnold like Marty Servo were
never the same after young Graziano got through with them..The most
EXCITING fighter I ever saw.
If he fought Napoles, both at their primes, Rocky would be 7 pounds
heavier than Jose, and that is important in Rocky's favor. On the other hand Rocky had trouble against Charley Fusari, a smaller welterweight
in 1949 ,AFTER the 3 Zale wars. Fusari was at his best , Rocky was fading.
Tough call for me, but pressed for an answer I'll go with the Rocky that
utterly destroyed welters as Freddie Red Cochrane [not in Napoles class] twice and the great young rival of Ray Robinson, Marty Servo. An animal against smaller welterweights...

 

BIG DEE!

What a terrible poster he was.

 

Napoles dices him up and stops him inside of ten .. Jose a much, much better fighter ...

 

Yes he, Napoles was a much better fighter than Graziano pound for pound.
But the seven or so pound advantage Graziano would have along with
his tremendous fury as grabbing an opponent in a corner with his left hand under the chin, and smashing his opponents head, can nullify the smaller Napoles superior boxing abilities. He used any and all means he could get away with to win...Same weights no contest, but 7 pounds spotting a vicious young Graziano, is a tall order for even the talented Jose Napoles...

 

I tried to respond to Big Dee, but didn't realize his post was in 2008....

 

Mantequilla is a great all-around fighter, but being this is at 154/160, Graziano would be the stronger man. His relentless mauling style would present a handfull for Jose, and being thin-skinned doesn't help Napoles. Mantequilla lays his share of good shots before Rocky eventually overtakes him.