Most of the American population was literate. The point was that this supposedly fringe, illegal sport was even popular at elite universities just like it was popular at every other level of society. I never said that universities were the only place where it was practiced. Good teachers made money just like they do today. Financial rewards create more incentives to improve.
I think it means quite a bit for all fighters, especially when you know what your deficiencies are. Amir Khan isn't a face-first brawler, because he has a terrible chin. Maybe Corbett started "ducking" from punches because, when he first began training, he was getting flattened. He basically lost all his fights by KO. Maybe Corbett had to run and had to duck out of necessity ... not because he thought he was being smarter than everyone else. But because he could actually win if he didn't just let guys hit him (because he couldn't take it). I've contributed all I'm going to to this thread. I picked Greb over Corbett. Greb outboxed far better fighters. I've seen everything everyone else has on Corbett. He looks like **** to me compared to guys who came later. If he doesn't to you guys, so be it. Gotta go.:good
My point is if you are a very good athlete as Corbett was with fast hands and fast feet technique on offense and defense matters less. The other points are Greb is giving up a lot of size here, had trouble with men over 170 pounds, never beat guy on Corbett' level over 180. Corbett wins, unless you think a middle beats a heavy when the middle has no punch. KLompton's points are quickly dismissed. He says Corbett had no technique and NEVER saw Greb in the ring, but Greb himself was described as amateurish! He might go into a coma if Walker Greb is found and Greb looks like Max Rosenbloom with some fouls mixed in. He also completely ignores the size difference and historians input on how good Corbett was. In his mind 30 years of boxing means everything for this thread, so should we assume that by 1950 Charles whips Greb due to boxing evolutions, and GGG flat out destroys him?
Are you ****ing kidding me? You really expect me to sit here and entertain a hypothetical that is based on the idea that Ali and Corbett fought in a similar style?? Lol. Go watch an Ali fight and then watch anything on Corbett and tell me they fought in the same style without throwing up in your own mouth. Cant be done. Im with chin on this. Ive said all I intend to. If people want to fantasize that Corbett fought in anything other than the most amateurish style you can imagine (while being lauded a beautiful boxing master) then theres no point in discussing because you've gone blind and drank the koolaide. Like I said, Im not denigrating Corbett within the context he existed. He was great at that time and was an important, transitional figure who brought the sport forward. But the sport and especially his division at that time was puddle deep and still evolving and any comparison between him and later fighters does no favors to him.
I would like to believe in any era that great fighters would find a way to succeed but it wouldn't be time machine success, it would have to be new era success with the intangibles counting towards the great fighter reaching the top. Clearly Corbett was a pioneer but his style was still rudimentary, low paced and doesn't look good on film. But if he was born a century later and given modern training I'd like to think he would find a way of hitting the top for at least a short juncture.
Once again, show me how many fights Greb had over 170 and how many he lost. That right there blows your entire argument out of the water. Greb wins unless you think the only thing that matters is a slight size advantage because that's the ONLY advantage Corbett has. When did I say Corbett had no technique? You don't know what Ive seen. In fact, according to you Ive seen Greb-Allentown Joe Gans and so have you. So theres that... Which is it? He was also described as a master boxer, sublime, a marvel, etc. And within that style he defeated bigger and better men than Corbett. Corbett cannot boast of having ever beaten ANYONE anywhere near the ability of Greb or accomplishments. Why? Greb beat Rosenbloom and he beat Walker. We can look at Walker and tell he was not only better than Corbett but also better than Tom Sharkey who beat Corbett. He also has a better HW resume than Sharkey. Rosenbloom was a better, more accomplished fighter than Corbett and had more top wins as well. Why would I go into a coma? Besides, who says Greb Walker hasn't been found? You think you know so much about what I have and what I don't why don't go double check that list you think is mine and tell me what you see on there with Greb's name it. And why not? We have more access to information on Corbett today than the clueless old timers in 1890 ever did. So a bunch of old coots saw Corbett in 1890 and thought he was fantastic because 98% of the HWs in 1890 looked like utter dog**** and wrote how great he was and Im supposed to just ignore what I can see with my own eyes both from his era and from later eras? Can you or anyone else pull any footage from 1900 or before and honestly tell me ANY of those fighters stand a chance with anyone from 1915 onward? Its ludicrous. Then go look at the photos of those when they were actually in shape and fighting and its often laughable. I will say again, the sport was dominated by a fat, drunken sot who was soft, pudgy, and rolling in fat even when well trained. That tells you all you need to know. There was essentially no such thing as a professional athlete in that era and it showed. Ezzard Charles was a great fighter but he doesn't look like he just laced on a glove. Neither do the fighters in Greb's era. Corbett does and that's the point. As far as Im concerned Golovkin isn't even a real fighter by the standards of Greb and Charles' era. The guy hasn't even fought anybody and hes what passes for a star while some already pretending hes an ATG. I wouldn't even mention his name with guys like Charles and Greb.
Completely agree. I can imagine Rocky putting a stone of muscle on quite easy but I can't imagine what Corbett would be like a century later with Manny Steward as a trainer. I'm not willing to make a pick because I've not seen Greb fight. I imagine him to look like Joe Calzaghe but a bit more elusive. So hard to say.
I'd be picking decent 14yo amateurs to beat these 2, they're shockingly bad. I doubt many well schooled amateurs today lose to either man.
And what rules are so drastically different in 1897 that makes it disadvantageous for a modern fighter to fight Corbett or Fitz under those rules?
