Why does size matter?

At lower weight classes weight is important. There is a long history of smaller hwts clobbering much larger fighters.

 

Skill levels being somewhat equal, if the bigger man institutes his fight plan (and yes, supposing he isn't a fat slob who falls over winded after 2 minutes) it is more difficult for the smaller fighter to mount a winning offense. It is equivalent to walking a tightripe of controlling engagement and range with speed and footwork. It's plenty possible, just not as easy.

For all the talk here of the many instances where a smaller heavy wins, there are far more where the significantly bigger fighters uses range, weight and strength to control the action.

And yes, there is also a point where the returns on size diminish. I understand this but for fighters who are excellent athletes, that point is not 200 pounds. For a couple decades we have been seeing guys 230 and above who have the balance, stamina and output to utilize their size advantages. We have not seen guys under 200 rise and dominate the division for any amount of time. The few cases we have are guys who play "capture the flag" picking on lesser or ageing champs for a quick bauble.

 

If two fighters are equal in skills, power, and speed, then yes, every pound of muscle and inch in height is an advantage.

Isn't Holyfield on of those guys?

He could take care of himself against the SHWs.

 

ah whos arguing its 200lbs? not me.

otherwise this post isnt an issue with what I've written.

 

Agree with all this and use Bowe-Holyfield as my case in point.

Look at them fighting other guys, not each other, and ask yourself who is the more skilled, quicker, defensively astute, fluid fighter. It's Evander. In terms of skills, he has a far more complete set than Bowe (who is not without skills but not at Holyfield's level).

And yet the lesser-skilled Bowe beat Holyfield handily, lost narrowly and then knocked him out. Because at the end of the day, you have to have an awful lot more skill than your opponent to offset the physical disparity of weighing 30lbs less, where his punches knock you flying while yours seem to bounce off him.

As an ATG, Holyfield is way ahead of Bowe, but H2H, if my life depended on it, I'd pick Rid****. Why? Because in shape at about 235-245lbs he was so much bigger than an in shape at 205-218lbs Holyfield. (I know there are those who say Bowe wasn't in shape for the 2nd fight but he looked pretty good in the 12th to me if that was the case).

That's why they say 'a good big 'un beats a good little 'un.' A great little 'un can beat a good big 'un but it's a hell of a trick to turn consistently if the big 'un is fit at that weight.

 

Also don't forget every major hwt the past 20 years has been on steroids. Take those away and you have a long list of lanky hwts. Put Louis on roids and you have a complete nightmare.

 

But if they weigh more, they will lose some of their speed and explosiveness and, ultimately, effectiveness. You have to take them for what they were in reality, not what they possibly would have been years later. And that reality is the 185-200lb versions.

And weighing that will always put you at a disadvantage over men naturally weighing 235lbs plus who can go the distance. It's doable, as Holyfield proved, but he made sure he had another 20-25lbs of muscle before he tried it, offsetting a loss in speed and stamina against the benefits from the gain in strength.

That's what the likes of Dempsey, Marciano and (to a lesser degree) Louis would have had to do. Weigh up how much they would benefit from extra weight and when it slows them down to the point of hindering them.

But if you could transport fighters in time, I would be surprised if they came in at 185-190lbs and even more surprised if they could consistently compete against the elite giants of the last 25 years if they did. P4P they are better fighters but that size disparity is a huge obstacle to overcome.

When mothers used to say 'Go and pick on someone you own size', they weren't talking to the smaller one.

 

The words Carnera, and elite level are a complete fukking contradiction in terms.

Take up yoghurt knitting, it would suit you better than waffling about boxing, of which you obviously dks.

 

A very sensible post.

As is often the case with these kind of stupid threads though, the ones with the agenda's want to offer the best of say Louis, Dempsey, or Marciano, against some two bob, fat slob journeyman who would last no longer against a prime Lewis, or K2 brother than their hero's would.

 

Yet the vast majority of them test negative. So, outside of Frans Botha and James Toney, you don't have much of an argument.

The more accurate argument is that old ignorant fuddy-duddies finally realized the merit of strength training, various anaerobic trainings and basically finally listened to medical science when it came to preparation.

 

Most all of the leading heavyweights the past 20 or so years were on roids at the top of their game. How they got around the testing is another science all together.