In no part of my post did I suggest that, the scores were 4-7 ,5-7,4-8 As it was fight of the year so it was obviously vey competitive. Pretty decent documentary about Rocky. This content is protected
choklab's point about 216 pound heavyweights cutting weight is correct. A 216 pound hyrdrated fighter is a fighter who is capable of making cruiserweight, ie. sub-200 weigh-in.
What does it matter if Tyson ballooned up in weight when he wasn't active? If we told you the same about Louis and Marciano (it being true too) you'd dismiss that as irrelevant. Cutting weight doesn't require more "starving". The way to do it is load up on water and few days out and then cut water out for a couple of days, which flushes the system out. Maybe sit in the sauna to sweat a few pounds off. That dries a man out a bit and he can weigh in 15 pounds lighter (perhaps more at heavyweight). Interestingly, back in Joe Louis's day even heavyweights used to do a bit of drying out, which was silly. So, if anything, Louis's 205 pounds is less representative of his true size. Anyway, Tyson at 5'10 and 216 pounds can easily be called a "cruiser" under current conditions.
Threads like this are kind of silly. I remember years ago I use to be kind of naive in thinking that Marciano could beat the super heavyweights of today and the 90s (I know Foreman and Liston technically weren't super heavyweights and were closer to size in Rocky) I don't really see any evidence that Marciano would be able to pull it off. Particularly vs these 6 great heavyweights - who all happen to be bigger, stronger, harder hitting and absolute nightmares stylistically for the 184 pound Italian. Think about it - how does he win any of these fights? Put aside the nostalgia-tinted glasses. His best shot to beat these guys is to break them down and knock them out. How does he do that to these big heavyweights? How does he beat, lets say, Sonny Liston?? I think Marciano would probably have the best shot of beating Liston out of all of these guys, because at least in terms of size Liston and Marciano are closer than these other matchups. How does Rocky do it? He would have to absorb an obscene amount of punishment in order to get to Liston and break him down. I don't see him getting by that huge left jab, and if he does Liston can bang with him on the inside and overpower him with uppercuts and hooks. Liston was 6 ft 1 and 214 pounds in his prime; even then he would hold pretty significant size advantages over Rocky and a huge reach advantage. Liston is a lot smaller compared to Wlad, Vitali, Bowe, Foreman and Lewis, yet he would still be too much and too technical for Rocky. I don't even think its worth entertaining Rocky vs the other 5.
Wouldn't Liston just shove Marciano away if Rocky came inside? Few refs penalize that ****, but so many just let it go on. No doubt Liston is easily his superior in the strength department.
Yeah he would. Liston was a monster up close though, and I suspect if Liston decided to engage Rocky on the inside, he would win that kind of fight as well. I can easily see him unloading with those huge uppercuts and overpowering Rocky on the inside, and then pushing him back to reset. On the outside, it's pretty obvious what would happen. Liston would unload that artillery on Rocky, starting with that legendary jab.
Thats fair but those things are kind of subjective. We cant really measure heart or durability. I never saw Rocky take shots from a technical power puncher akin to Liston, someone who was Liston's size. Rocky proved his durability & heart vs the likes of Louis, Walcott, Moore and Charles. Frankly none of those guys (certainly not 37 year old Louis) can compare to Liston. Liston showed plenty of heart & durability to me when he outslugged cleveland williams and fought through the first marty marshall fight with a broken jaw. I think people penalize liston too much for the ali fights. Thats not indicative of how Prime Liston would deal with someone like Marciano.
A fighter usually can't feel a broken jaw right away. After the fight is when all the pain starts to set in.
nonsense. They can feel it right away. They feel it every time they get hit. I am sure that the adrenaline hides some of the pain, but fighters have quit fights before because of broken jaws. It happens.
I see your side of the picture too. My feeling is that Liston felt that he could dominate Marshall and Williams, despite some adversity and difficulty. But it seems like when Liston is unsure that he can win, he gets frustrated. It makes sense given his bullying style. And I think Rocky is in a class of fighters that wouldn't get bullied by Liston. Rocky will eat some punches, but he will also land the hardest shots Liston has taken. Since I think both of them will be eating punches, heart and courage would come into play.
Yes Liston would usually get frustrated by awkward, lanky movers or guys with a good left jab. Like Marty Marshall, Eddie Machen or Cassius Clay. Rocky isn't that. I think Rocky's style lends itself to Liston. Rocky will have to absorb a ridiculous amount of punches to get to Liston.. He will have to get by that long, punishing jab and devastating right cross. Lets assume that Rocky can consistently march through the fire and get inside without getting cut, knocked out or badly hurt. When or if he does, Liston can either shove Rocky away with his superior strength, or bang with him on the inside and overpower him. Liston will land his huge right uppercut as Rocky as Rocky crouches down low. Maybe Rocky wins the war of attrition, I tend to think he wouldn't due to all the disadvantages he would have vs Liston, but hey it would be a helluva fight!
