McCallum vs fab 4.... the ducks

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Grinder, Oct 3, 2016.


  1. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

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    McCallum and Hearns both boxed at Kronk under Steward who supposedly protected Hearns from a real fight. Funny how none of the fab 4 fought the body snatcher. A complete fighter - could box, punch and a granite chin. Arguably beat fat Toney in at least 1 if not 2 of their wars, an outstanding trilogy for those who missed the fights.

    Was he ducked? As I see it, would have beaten Hearns and Duran. Leonard would have outboxed him in a close contest. Don't know if Hagler could have outboxed him but in his prime at 160 might have just been a bit too much.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I believe Duran chose to fight Tommy Hearns rather than defend against McCallum. If that was the case it is understandable on Duran`s part. The $ was there for Hearns it was a no brainer. Duran didn`t duck him out of fear or concern about Mike McCallum boxing ability. Hearns may have known McCallum better being in the gym with him. I`m not sure of the circumstances whether he ducked Mike or not.

    Sugar Ray was basically retired for a good portion of the 80s. He may have avoided McCallum after he cameback. Hagler was a middleweight.
     
  3. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mccallum was a excellent fighter. But he was too good for his own good. Plus not really being high profile. It was the ultimate story of very high risk, but little reward. Why fight Mccallum for 1/2 million dollars when you can fight a Hearns, Duran ,Hagler or Leonard for 10 million? But I do think Hearns ( at jr.middle a beast). Leonard, and Hagler would've beaten him
     
  4. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    These matchups with the Fab Four would've taken place from around 1982-1984, when McCallum was fighting Kalule and Sean Mannion.

    McCallum wasn't ready for those top guys. He didn't even reach his 20th win until the end of 1983.

    I think Leonard, Hearns and Hagler would've all knocked him out or won lop-sided decisions. Duran wasn't too sharp in 1982, and McCallum may have been able to upset him. But the Duran who beat Cuevas, Moore and faced Hagler would've beaten McCallum via decision.

    By the time McCallum hit his stride around 1990, Hagler was long retired and none of the others were in the middleweight picture.

    McCallum really wasn't a peer of theirs any more than someone like Milton McCrory was. Nobody ducked him. He simply wasn't on their radar.
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    That is a superb post. The so called "ducking" has become quite fashionable over the years and i also strongly believe McCallum has become somewhat overrated.

    Flash is also correct, there wasn't much money in fighting McCallum and he was definitely a lot better than your average bear.
     
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  6. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

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    Decisions maybe. KOs no. Just interested in the supposed domination of Hearns in sparring but the consistent belief that Hearns would destroy him.
     
  7. fistfighter

    fistfighter 44-3-1 (42KO's) Full Member

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    I'm in agreement with McCallum just being too good and too low a money fight for the fab four to risk against.

    McCallum could have beaten one or more of them on the right day, but I don't think he would have. For them it was, why fight so dangerous a fighter for so low a reward?

    As a fan I sure would have loved to have seen the fights though.
     
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nah.

    He was Duran's mandatory challenger and Duran was stripped of his title for failing to meet him. Probably just because there was more money in facing Hearns, but not facing your mandatory is a duck in my book. At least technically. But no shadow on Roberto here really.

    Hearns didn't really duck Mike, but he showed no interest in giving his old stable mate a chance at unification. Steward has implied he didn't want Tommy to take that risk. And for what it's worth, Mike has said that Steward held up Tommy's picture and said "this is the closest you will get to him".

    Leonard can't be said to have ducked Mike since they never really were in the same division., but he has been quoted as saying that he didn't think Mike was worth the risk.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I dont think anyone ducked him. McCallum was on the rise when the others were winding down.
    This has taken mythical proportions over the yrs.
    The one Sparring vid i saw between Hearns and McCallum i thought Hearns handled him with his jab dont know where all this McCallum dominated him comes from.
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I don't think it is correct to say McCallum "hit his stride" around 1990.
    I'd say 1986 and 1987 he was being talked of as one of the big names in the 154 - 160 range, one of the best title-holders in the world regardless of weight division, and a possible heir to Hagler.
    Certainly the KO of Don Curry in 1987 signalled him to everyone, if there were any doubters.

    But of course he didn't quite overlap with Hagler, who by 1986 was only staying on to face Leonard.
    And Leonard at least made out he was ONLY coming back for Hagler.

    Hearns was looking to pick up titles in OTHER divisions, since he'd already done enough at 154. He wanted titles at 160 and 175, which he achieved in 1987.
    Soon after he became a middleweight champion, McCallum failed in his own challenge for a middleweight title, getting clearly outboxed by Kalambay.

    Duran-Hearns in 1984 made a lot more sense financially, and I have a feeling Steward was party to the politics that made the fight happen so that McCallum could contest the WBA title that Duran had to eventually give up to face Hearns.
     
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  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I'd favor McCallum to beat Duran anywhere from Jr. Middle and above. I'd have him as an underdog against the remaining three, but on the right not he might upset one of them.
     
  12. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree with you, I think McCallums best years were from late 84 to 89/90 to me, that's when he was his most dynamic. After 90 he slowed considerably.
     
  13. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'll always love that one punch finish of Donald Curry...it was the first boxing match,...hell, it was the first thing period that I ever recorded...and I almost wore the tape out by replaying it and watching it so much.
     
  14. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good synopsis. I think it's kind of unfair to call any of the four potential oppoents "duckers." The timing was wrong for all of them except maybe Duran, who could have tried for McCallum. Money talks though, and Hearns was waiting for him. More there to be had for Duran, so one could hardly blame him.

    McCallum didn't even move up to middleweight until Hagler was retired after losing to Leonard, and you've already gone over Leonard's situation. Hearns was nothing if not brave, and I don't think he ever ducked anyone in his life. He went after the tough guys. Just because you can't get to them all doesn't mean you're ducking people.
     
  15. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This is spot on.

    Mike was a great fighter but his power has become overrated. He took a long time to get McCrory out of there. Curry had shown how to do that properly a couple of years before. Points wins over Mannion and Herol Graham post prime are not the stuff of legend.