Kessler could become a better fighter than Calzaghe

Kessler doesn't REALLY have a great skillset. It's his physical attributes that make him the fighter that he is in my view.

He has a great sense of timing, he has good reach and height for the weight class and he's got a good level of snap in his punches.

Skillset wise, he moves straight backwards when pressured which is a big no no, he doesn't work to the body, he leaves himself open for counter shots when he throws the right hand and isn't a noted hooker.

His uppercut is under rated and I think under utilised but I can see him being brutally knocked out by a puncher at some stage (this is where I pick Pavlik) due to the fact that he has no lateral movement when moving away from incoming punches.

Kesslers major avantage seems to be his mentality, he isn't bowed down by anyone and wasn't bowed down by Calzaghe, he just couldn't compete with Calzaghe's speed and skill.

Mundine annoys me because he has even greater physical attributes than Kessler combined with a better skillset, however he's mentally ******ed and it shows when he's put under pressure.

As for Bute, I think he's a hard puncher and I don't think that is appreciated much about him. He staggered Bika at times and Bika has a pretty solid beard in my view. I actually think Bika is more of a challenge than Andrade, perhaps that's just bias though.

From 147-175 is where I like my boxers, consider myself knowledgeable in any of those divisions with OK Cruiserweight and decent HW knowledge, below that and I'm poo mate

 

Yeah Man! It is EASY. You should step up to it.

 

I'll let my man Pavlik do it.

Besides, at 6'4, 195lbs, I don't think I can make that 168 limit, otherwise.

 

The jab is also a key component of his skillset. I remember fairly knowledgable people commenting pre-Calzaghe, he'd beat him to the jab, thats how highly it was rated. It was obviously an absurd claim, no orthodox fighter out there can outjab Calzaghe, but it gives an indication of how good it is

His defence whilst not being A level, is also far tighter than somebody like Bute, Taylor or Pavlik in my view, and overall he doesn't make as many mistakes as these guys

Physically he is a beast, my worry is I'm not sure how much longer he'll make 168, he really struggled to make it against Calzaghe and I desperately want to see him against Taylor and Pavlik

 

My biggest worry about Kessler is that he hasn't faced anyone with a proven ability to slip the jab, therefore trying to estimate how good he is with it is quite hard, especially when he was comprehensively stripped against Calzaghe.

Regarding Calzaghe outjabbing Kessler, anyone who had followed Calzaghe from earlier fights knew he never had issues with anyones jab, he has faced quite a few very strong jabbers too.

He's also taken longer to get into his next fight than Calzaghe did, considering their respective ages, this is of a concern.

I think people desperately under rate Pavlik. Remember how easily he butchered Miranda and then comprehensively beat Taylor.

Taylor isn't no bum, the guy has beaten some credible opposition, more credible than Kessler.

I actually really want Kessler vs Pavlik at 168, to either prove or disprove my ideas on how that fight goes.

 

I think you gave us quite a comprehensive run down of Kessler's weaknesses, and I agree with most. How about one for Pavlik's now, I think you'd have a list as long as your arm wouldn't you?

I'm absolutely certain Kessler wins this fight, I can't see any way Pavlik avoids those straight laser like 1-2's considering he just walks forward with little or no head movement. I think he might also be in for a big suprise when he faces such a big strong guy, he is completely used to having major physical advantages at middleweight.

 

Pavlik's weaknesses is over eagerness, not tucking the chin in when he throws punches, tending to march forward and through, rather than utilising head movement, a tendancy to showboat and pay for it (against Zuniga and Taylor) and doesn't fight well going backwards.

Like Kessler, he also seems to have a singular gameplan.

Unlike Kessler, I think he has proven crushing power, he has exceptional stamina and doesn't tire, he throws higher numbers than Kessler and has better body work and lateral movement.

The major factor I see in the fight though, Pavlik has a proven ability to win when things aren't going right for him. Kessler so far doesn't.

How do I see Pavlik avoiding the one-twos that Kessler throws? By backing him up with his own one-twos and forcing him to fight on the back foot, what you may not realise also is that Pavlik is an inch and a half taller than Kessler and has two inches longer reach.

Pavlik is very nearly past the point of making 160lb and I think due to his training ethics and the way in which he trains, going up to 168 will only increase his power.

I also think Pavlik can take Kessler's best right hand, I don't know if Kessler can take Pavliks.

But like I see, it's a fight I want to see to be proved/disproved in my thoughts about each fighter.

 

I'm suprised you think its not a problem for Pavlik to take Kessler's right hand, but vice-versa the Dane is in a world of trouble!

I don't think Pavlik has bone crushing power, it is certainly more accumulative than one punch. You wouldn't put him in the Benn/Jackson/McClellan category by any stretch. He must of hit Taylor/Miranda six hundred times before the ref saves their ass. His finishing ability is more impressive than his power

If Taylor has enough to hurt him, I'm pretty sure Kessler will with either the right, or the uppercut that stunned Joe. Kessler has never been down, amateur or pro, there is nothing to worry about in his chin. Indeed, he has only been hurt by a body shot, which can happen to anybody

And then the small factor of the natural supermiddle facing a guy that has to adjust the size and power at the weight. No no, I happen to think Kessler is more likely to hurt Pavlik, especially with the relative defences on show :yep

 

I just think Kessler is a little over-rated in the power department, especially seeing Mack stagger and drop Andrade in their fight.

I also think outside of the right hand and uppercut, Kessler is limited in what he throws, where as Pavlik has good hooking ability and a great jab to the body.

The reason I said crushing power and not knock out power with Pavlik is exactly that, you don't break a wall with one hit of the sledge hammer, but over time you weaken it to the point it crumbles.

Am I right in assuming you don't think much of Taylor? Cause I think offensively, he's better than Kessler.

Poppycock, I hear you say... Why is it then against two defensive masters in Winky and Hopkins, he was able to hit them quite often and have quite a bit of success especially in the centre of the ring?

I think Taylor has the rough end of the stick personally, he fought and beat a series of top guys and came back so fired up and focused in that second fight against Pavlik, the fact that Pavlik still had too much is what really impressed me

Because prior to that, I had a similar idea to you that Pavlik wouldn't do well against the elite.

Pavlik represents the most potent combination of power and accuracy that Kessler would have faced, combined with being (I think?) the tallest guy Kessler has faced and one of the few with longer reach.

His jab is under-rated, it wasn't so long ago that Taylor was being mentioned as one of the best jabbers in the game, he was beaten to the punch by Pavlik.

I think it will come down to who can force the other onto the backfoot, Kessler showed against Andrade that he can be pushed back, despite Andrade only landing 10% of his punches thrown.

My thoughts are Pavlik can push Kessler back and land the right hand more, got to remember, prior to Pavlik, Taylor had never really been hurt either and he took some flush right hands from Hopkins.

 

Kessler does only really throw the left-jab, right-hand and under utilises the uppercut, I agree there isn't much variation. I've seen him throw the occasional left-hook, very seldom though. But those punches can take you pretty far if you throw them well enough, and Kessler certainly does. I've got to question how much variation in shot you actually need against Pavlik. You would be quite right if we were analysing a Calzaghe rematch, he needs more in his arsenal, but Pavlik is just plain open to those shots, I don't believe a special forumla is needed

Regarding Taylor, I probably seem like a hater on here, but only because people like to overrate him as an elite in order to boost Pavlik, conveniently forgetting those decisions he got which were just plain wrong in my view. If they were correct decisions he'd be an elite, but in reality he had close fights with elites, making him a B+.

Offensively, I don't believe he is better than Kessler, but at a similar level. His jab isn't as good, he doesn't have as much power (how he didn't KO either Spinks or Ouma I've no idea). However, he has good handspeed and variety of shot. Defensively, he is clearly worse, that lazy left hand annoys me

You touch on Taylor's chin, but I'm not sure whether the Hopkins fight proves that much. I never believed it was any coincidence Hopkins moved up to 175 and suddenly looked a whole lot better, being weight drained was an issue, and Hopkins power is what I'd call sneaky. Then he gets KTFO by Pavlik, who is the only real puncher he faced. It will be easier to appraise his chin when we see him in action at SMW

 

That's some fresh steamin' ol' bull **** and you know it. How's about how you Calzombies continually defend Kessler to the death?

What's so different about those situations?

 

Everytime I've seen Kessler throw the left hook, it's almost like he believes he should throw it like Roy Jones Jr did - he leaves himself wide open to being crunched by a counter right hand (one like Pavlik's for instance)

I think we could argue the points all night long and like I say, I really need to see the fight in order to disprove or prove what I think.

Regarding Taylor, you're just not giving the guy much credit, in my view being able to take Hopkins and Winky close, let alone winning is one hell of an effort and something that I think is completely under-rated.

I guess that's why despite having similar opinions of both fighters, we're disagreeing on the result because we disagree on where their previous wins should be rated.

Me with Andrade/Mundine.
You with Taylor/Miranda/Zuniga.

 

Let's see, one got KTFO in 7 rounds against what was a contender, the other lost 116-112 to an A level elite

I hope this helps you

 

Yeah, exactly.

I see Pavlik beating Taylor as a better win than Calzaghe beating Kessler.

 

lol, Harsh

Considering it was Round 7 that Kessler was badly hurt and bailed out by an over zealous referee.