Would Calzaghe have been the best ever if his hands had stayed injury free?

the most depressed/miserable/mentally ill long term poster in ESB history is calling me a nutjob hahaha...
dude you aint praying in the right direction to Mecca cause your posts scream of despair and unhappiness.

 

nutjob ok?

 

It was still a lightly regarded title.


Why have you mentioned Grant?

Grant took low money for a voluntary defence.


If you're not going to bother reading my posts, we'll end the debate now.

It's pointless taking it any further.

 

I agree but had Calzaghe taken out Darius he would have A) had to go on the road to do so and B) having done something Roy was willing to would then have had a claim to ask Roy to dig out his passport without looking like a total fool so no doubt would have.

Roy was a weight class jumper and fought who he wanted so if he didn't fancy a mando defence then nobody could of forced him. I'm not saying he wouldn't have happily accepted a mandatory bout with Joe just that him being Roy at that point he was calling the shots and being mando meant little when taken in context of whatever his plans were.

In short I just don't think Calzaghe was willing to put in what would be quite a serious amount of effort without being guaranteed a shot whilst he could make plenty of money defending his 168 trinket for ok money at his leisure. I've often criticised Joe for his lack of ambition post winning his strap.

 

Have to agree with the op. Super Joe would have gone down as perhaps the g.o.a.t had his hands not gone. Such skill, such dexterity, such indefatigability. A true athlete, scholar and gentleman was our Joe.

 

Its no secret Joe admitted himself basically he was told by the specialist doctors he has to give up boxing due to brittle hands. His natural power just not compatiable with his hand. So he changed his style he stopped trying to sitting down on his punches and started being a more points fighter. I remember watching him from his amateur days he was a skinny guy who just blew away people. And when he turned pro he was a puncher for sure.

 

Sugar 88,

Realistically, he'd have had to have beaten Dariusz convincingly in Germany, and then gone to the U.S. and impressed in a few other fights. A big ask, but certainly possible. If he'd have stayed injury free and he'd have impressed like how he did against Lacy, he'd have turned a lot of heads. People would have started talking about him and Roy getting together, especially as at the time, people were getting inpatient with Roy's competition. That is why he should have moved up to LHW much earlier. Because even if you think his SMW competition was good, the LHW division had fighters with name recognition. If it had been possible for him to have fought guys like: Griffin, Nunn, and Reggie Johnson etc, it would have gotten him much closer to a fight with Roy, than wins over the likes of Woodhall, even though Woodhall was a good fighter.

In the early 00's, I don't think Roy missed a mandatory. But it's irrelevant anyway, because Joe would never have taken the mandatory split that Roy's other mandatories took.

You're right. He wasn't willing to put the ground work in.

In my honest opinion, he knew full well he would never get Roy in the ring for huge money, and he knew Roy would never drop back to SMW and go to Wales. But it gave him the opportunity to tell the media that he and Frank had tried to make something happen. It was all nonsense.

Regarding money, even if Joe had moved up to LHW in the early 00's and still not have gotten Roy in the ring, I'm sure he'd have made more money that what he did in Britain at SMW. He can't have been paid really well for fighting guys such as: Mitchell, Pudwell, McIntyre, Brewer, Ashira, Salem and Mkrtchyan. Again, don't forget that he had to struggle to make weight to fight those guys too.

 

No arguments with any of that, I'm just saying that he clearly couldn't be bothered with making the effort he would have needed to having to make a Roy fight a real possibility. Whilst it's quite a lot to expect of anyone - going to Germany for Darius, the US for a run of contenders arguably better than some of the guys RJJ was wiping out - but of course I would have preferred it had he had.

What he wanted was the fight on the terms he eventually got it but that would never have been offered to him prior to Roy's financial and physical decline. That was never going to happen.

 

We're almost on the same page.

He was a great fighter, but he couldn't be bothered to do the groundwork, despite telling the media for almost 10 years that he wanted career defining fights against the best fighters out there.

If he'd have been genuine, was it such a big ask to try and fight Dariusz in Germany, considering he was happy to fight Veit there, and the WBO would have given him a title shot? I don't think so. I also don't think it was a big ask to move up to LHW when he was starving himself to make SMW and he knew Ottke wouldn't fight him.

 

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They are screening for utter nonsense posts now .. lol

 

His hands being soft didn't have much affect on the quality of opponent across from him. If his hands had been in better health, it's not like that makes Jeff Lacy a better fighter. And Joe is not close to the conversation. He's one of the best of the decade and the era, but nobody views him as the best, and certainly not ever.

 

Darius was a very good fighter and so I doubt Joe would have expected to have stopped or totally dominated him and may have thought with that in mind that it would be unfairly difficult for him to get the nod. Germany was the home of the robbery then protecting the likes of Ottke and co. so it's not hard to imagine them giving a genuine star the nod in a close fight they clearly lost - that's not to def say Joe would have beaten him just that I understand his concerns.

Veit couldn't hang with him and he knew it hence why he wasn't worried about getting jobbed.

But yes it would have been good at that time to see him move to 175 and mix t with the guys there although we ended up getting Lacy, Kessler and Bika so it wasn't all bad him staying at SMW. I bet he wishes he fought Froch now too. If he would of known how well Carl would do afterwards you'd think he would of liked to have him on his ledger. People forget that Carl was pretty much an unknown quantity at world level then - thanks largely to the incompetent promoting of Mick Hennessy. It's a real shame that that fight never happened.

 

This is what I have been saying to Loudon previously and he is listening to you rather than looking to argue with me.
Why would someone drop a world title to fight on undercards where they have no real fan base that could travel, to fight for less money for a fight that may never materialise. All the while possibly not doing anything at that time for their legacy that they have started already in another division
Good post

 

Go to post 178
regards bailey

 

Great points.

Regarding Froch, I think he may have regrets. But I bet Carl does with regards to DeGale, especially if he unifies the division.