115 is by far the strongest divison in boxing

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Jan 18, 2017.


  1. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    How do you have 4 elite fighters in one divison. I'd say the divison has four top 10 p4p fighters.

    Shame these guys have to be so damn little. If they were Middleweights people would going ****ing crazy about this divison right now.
     
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  2. Orca

    Orca Member Full Member

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    Agreed. I feel for the little guys sometimes. They make the same sacrifices, take the same punches and work just as hard as the bigger fighters but make way less money and receive a lot less TV time. Plus their careers are usually shorter than the heavier guys. That division is super hot right now. By the end of the year it could look very different so let's enjoy it while we can.
     
  3. Champagne Popping

    Champagne Popping The TRUTH is the TRUTH banned Full Member

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    Cruiserweight is definitely the best and most exciting division
     
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  4. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    Yeah, I only count 3 top ten p4p fighters and one top 20 but it is a renaissance for the division. It's kind of like how a decade ago we had a renaissance at Bantamweight with Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Marquez, plus the Marquez vs Vazquez series. But they won't get any credit for being elite fighters at Super Fly because there are only 632 pro fighters in the division, they are small, and most of their fights are happening overseas unaired by western networks.

    It does kind of make one think of the 80s when Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, and Duran were all hovering around middleweight too.

    You know, fights are pretty cheap to be had down at Flyweight. For about 8 million dollars we could probably get a tournament style round robin between all of them.
     
  5. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    None of those guys are top 10 p4p except Gonzalez.
     
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  6. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You mean the 113-to-115-pound division?

    The division where you have to weigh within two pounds of each other or it isn't considered a fair fight?

    Jesus.

    No. It's not.
     
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  7. Champagne Popping

    Champagne Popping The TRUTH is the TRUTH banned Full Member

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    No one even hardlywatches these division so it can't be the best, most of the world dont even have fighters in these divisions.

    I watch all the divisions from featherweight up to heavyweight
    below that I might watch the odd fight like Gonzalez- Cuadras..
     
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  8. TheCimpIsHere

    TheCimpIsHere New Member Full Member

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    Underrated division.I agree the best
     
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  9. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    You don't consider Inoue or Estrada top 10? For me, I see the current state of things p4p something like this:

    1.Gonzalez
    2.Lomachenko
    3.Rigondeaux
    4.Ward
    5.Kovalev
    6.Golovkin
    7.Inoue
    8.Lara
    9.Alvarez
    10.Crawford
    11.Estrada
    12.Usyk
    13.Frampton
    14.Beterbiev
    15.Yamanaka
    16.Pacquiao
    17.Cotto
    18.Bradley
    19.Nietes
    20.Ioka
    21.Cuadras
    22.Broner
    23.Mikey Garcia
    24.Joshua
    25.Brook
    26.Andrade
    27.Gvozdyk
    28.Thurman
    29.Povetkin
    30.Spence
     
  10. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    I agree. No contest there. Roman Gonzalez is an established ATG to add to that. Whoever isn't watching 115 division is missing out on a great era. Inoue, Roman, Estrada are all in the P4P Top 10 for me, and Cuadras is Top 20 and clearly an A+ fighter.
    The tier II in that division are still guys like Yafai, Rungvisai and I think Casimero is moving up to this division and he confirmed he wants a unification bout with Roman.
     
  11. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What are you basing this off? Purely on the eye test? I look at the resume (who he beat, how he beat them and when he beat them) and skills displayed (footwork, hand speed, defense which has it own sub categories, inside skills, combination punching, jab, etc). With that inconsideration there's no way I could put Inoue in front of CRAWFORD, Frampton or Canelo. He's never even fought an undefeated fighter, never unified his division, yeah he's been impressive in his fights but until he fights a caudras or Gonzalez I couldn't put him near my top 10.
     
  12. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Your a knowledgeable dude whose opinion I respect and usually agree with but your list baffles me coz I'm not sure what your criteria is for your list.

    For example if you think someone lower on your p4p list beats someone above them do you still rank that person higher until they do it or do you just go on your prediction and move them up?
     
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  13. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    It's a bit of a mixture of the eye test and the resume.

    Why I put Inoue in front of Crawford is because Crawford is in his second weight class and he's really only beaten an undersized Gamboa and Postol, while Inoue is in his third weight class and beat Narvaez. I'm also giving him bonus points for just knocking people stupid and looking absolutely head and shoulders above his competition.

    Canelo is a good junior middleweight but his competition has all been people who used to fight at lightweight. The only decent guys he's fought who weren't old and small were Kirkland, Trout, and Lara. I had Lara beating him, so I put Lara above him p4p. I'd have more respect for Canelo if he'd fought Andrade or Charlo than I do for him fighting Cotto and Mosley. You don't get to be p4p when you routinely fight guys who are much smaller than you. That's why Crawford's Gamboa win doesn't hold a lot of water either.

    As for Frampton being behind Inoue, that's because I don't really rate Quigg, and Santa Cruz is just pretty good. I'm much more impressed by Inoue's victory over Omar Narvaez, HOFer, two weight champ, victor of 28 title fights, only ever beaten by Nonito Donaire. Now, that is a good ****ing scalp to have, right up there with Floyd Mayweather taking out Genaro Hernandez when he was only 21 years old. Same thing. Hernandez had only been previously been beaten by Oscar De La Hoya and was the man in his division with like 13 title fights under his belt.

    Plus, I love the impetuosity and ambition that Inoue has shown. Historically, the best guys get their first titles in their early twenties. Manny was like 20. May was about 21. Gonzalez got his when he was 21. These guys are out to have a career, be something special, making hay while the sun shines.
     
  14. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    A lot of the list is just an eye test partially backed by resume, what my gut says about fighters. I'll go through it one by one why guys are there.

    1.Gonzalez = He is the only guy in his prime right now who's undefeated in his fourth weight class with like sixteen title fights and wins over other top guys in his divisions.
    2.Lomachenko = The guy looks technically phenomenal, still prime, only in his second weight class, but no major scalps or many title defenses. He probably will move up and be #1 eventually though. But he's as dominant as Golovkin right now, while looking even better technically.
    3.Rigondeaux = I still say this guy should have inherited the mantel from Mayweather when he beat Donaire. He's been even better defensively than May for years. Donaire was prime and p4p himself when Rigo beat him. He hasn't shown signs of declining. Thin resume but what a hell of a scalp, like prime Mosley after he'd beaten De La Hoya in 2000. Still unbeaten and looking unbeatable.
    4.Ward = This guys got skills and IQ almost as good as Rigo, but he's definitely prime and in his second weight class. He has a great record at SMW and while I know he should have lost to Kovalev, the fact that he's naturally smaller moving up to essentially tie Kovalev makes him a little better than the man, in my opinion.
    5.Kovalev = He's got Hopkins, Pascal, and now Ward under his belt. Got a bunch of defenses and is king of his division. The quality of his opposition puts him slightly ahead of Golovkin in my eyes.
    6.Golovkin = Like sixteen title fights or something like that. 22 consecutive knockouts. That's dominance.
    7.Inoue = Love the third weight, two-division champ status like 8 fights in. Love how he knocks people silly and looks completely dominant. But so far, he's only really got one good scalp. If he can get some of the big whigs at super fly he can shoot up to number one very fast. Probably not done moving up in weight yet, just like Loma.
    8.Lara = Beat Canelo, beat Williams, should be undefeated. The true boss of JMW.
    9.Alvarez = A very good fighter who's made a very lucrative career fighting old smaller famous fighters.
    10.Crawford = The man in his second weight class. Excellent ring IQ. Good technique. Looks dominant. Needs a few more big names, which he'll probably get when he settles into his natural weight at 147.
    11.Estrada = Beat former p4p fighter Viloria. Beat former p4p fighter Segura. Took current p4p fighter Gonzalez neck and neck in a very close fight. Great technique. Good speed. Reminds me of Marquez to Gonzalez' Pacquiao.
    12.Usyk = Is head and shoulders above anyone in his division in terms of skill. Beat Glowacki who looked like the best before him. Solid win over Mchunu. Still in his prime.
    13.Frampton = Beat Santa Cruz barely. Beat the lackluster Quigg. Arguably the man in his second division. Still ducking Rigondeaux.
    14.Beterbiev = A monster who destroys whatever he touches. Possibly the best light heavyweight. Needs better matchmaking.
    15.Yamanaka = Undefeated. 12 title defenses. Doesn't look amazing but you can't knock that resume.
    16.Pacquiao = Once the best but he's shop worn and past prime. His punch output is half what it was. He can still move and be a top welterweight, but most of his physical skills have eroded. He's not the best at his weight, but considering that he's several divisions above where a guy his size usually fights he's still pound for pound, and he could probably still be the man at lightweight if he wanted.
    17.Cotto = A very good, nearly great welterweight. Technichally sound. Good power. Lucky as hell to beat Martinez.
    18.Bradley = Good skill but no power. Got some gift decisions but still only the best can beat him.
    19.Nietes = Haven't really seen him. Just like the resume.
    20.Ioka = Ditto.
    21.Cuadras = Went 35-0, 7 title fights, before taking the p4p #1 to a close and controversial bout.
    22.Broner = He's definitely got skills even though he doesn't have brains. Was overhyped but still a top operator at 140.
    23.Mikey Garcia = I was never really sold on Mikey. Other people are. I need to take another look at him.
    24.Joshua = The future at heavyweight. Powerful. Dominant. Athletic. Undefeated.
    25.Brook = Looks like he has skills, speed, and athleticism enough to hang at middleweight. If he stays at welterweight, then he's probably the man there.
    26.Andrade = Looks like he has the skills to be the best JMW after Lara. Could possibly beat Canelo and Charlos. But unproven.
    27.Gvozdyk = monster punching light heavy, like Beterbiev. Needs more proving.
    28.Thurman = Only beat Porter. Needs more proving.
    29.Povetkin = Solid resume. Beat Huck, Pulev, Chagaev, Takam. Might be the best current heavyweight and heir to Wlad's throne if he hadn't sidelined himself with PEDs.
    30.Spence = Looks strong and athletic, but needs more data than the Algieri fight to prove.
     
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  15. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Okay thanks for clearing that up. I for one do not care much how much weight classes someone has been in, I would prefer someone became undisputed in one then move up or at least fought the number 1 or 2 in the division and then moved up, I can tell your a big fan of people going through the weight classes but at these small weights separated by 3 lbs it's not even that impressive to me unless the jump up 3 or 4 weight divisions like a gonzalez.

    So inoue would definitely not make my top 10, his never fought the no 1 or 2 in the two divisions his been in, not that I'm blaming for it but the only reason I make Gonzalez top 10 is his two wins of Estrada and Caudras. Inoue can penetrate my list coz he definitely has the talent but he needs to beat an Estrada, Caudras or Gonzalez or unify with Yafai/ancjas.

    Crawford definitely is higher up the list fair enough, Gamboa was lighter than him but Gamboa when Crawford fought him was a speed demon and then to disgrace your no.2 in your division in the manner he did it is a great achievement. For him to crack top 3 he needs to become undisputed and win a belt in 147.

    You have Beterbiev in you top 15 but he's not fought one person in the top 20 yet so if anything Barerra should be above him in the list for his win over Shabransky. Not to mention Gvozdyk who just has the all round better resume.

    Mikey Garcia with a win of Zlaticanin should crack top the top 15 in my eyes when you compound his other wins in the past. You have Broner and Brook above Thurman even though one lost to Porter and Thurman beat Porter without having to grab him every two seconds like Brook did

    I know I'm nitpicking but I was just pointing out a few inconsistencies so I would drop inoue and Beterbiev out of the top 15 put Thurman & Gvozdyk higher up, put Mikey Garcia higher and I think Francisco Vargas deserves to be in the top 30 over people like Broner. I know past achievements count but I have Spence stopping Bradley so not sure I would have Bradley up there anymore his finished as a top 5 guy in his division.