Leonard's disgusting late eighties era

He was better at lightweight than any of those were relevant to their best division.

 

My bad-- he scored it a draw (in a post on 1/30/16 in the "what fights did you watch..." thread).

Roberto Duran UD15 Ray Leonard

Duran looks like a ****ing lunatic. Leonard looks so cool entering the ring. Leonard comes out flat-footed, kinda, but showing the shoulder, feinting, maintaining range. When Duran feints, Leoanrd goes out. When he rushes, Leonard gives ground. His priority early is slipping. Duran, crouching, right hand ****ed. Then Leonard throws and Duran leans in and slips. Beautiful cuffing punches inside from Leonard on the counter to Duran's rush. Leonard looks mean. They both look really mean. Leonard slips bodily then counters again; Duran is dominating the space, barely but Leonard is definitely contesting that.

High level squabbling about time and space in the first. This is going to be a long post.

Duran scores a left-right when charging in. He's waiting for Leonard to show a slight commitment to balance on one foot or the other then charging and scoring. He's being forced, by Leonard's excellence, to overcommit but it's kinda working because his instincts are so wonderful. Now Duran jabs and a weird, up-left-hook and Leonard is running for the ropes and holding on. Duran jabbing Leonard back, bodywork, this is ATG boxing. Uppercuts inside, the referee is unsure. Fabulous round of boxing for us geeks, maybe unparalleled.

Duran beats the **** out of Leonard's body in the third. The wonderment of properly captured aggression. Leonard is giving ground before the Duran jab. Why? He is boxing aggressively, supposedly, the wrong plan, but he gives ground before the jab - he should be jabbing with Duran. It's hard, though, when Duran is catching Leonard over the top with punches like the ones he throws in this round. Then, more love for the ribs at the ropes. Leonard is doing work, two-handed, but he can't get on top in there. Duran is too good at timing and finding his man in there although I think Duran was momentarily hurt near the end of this round. Then again in the final seconds. Absurd, brilliant final minute.

Leonard scores with a nice left hook early, Duran looks a bit tired. Leonard takes advantage, pushing and pulling a bit inside, shoe-shining to the body with the occasional dig before opening up with very fast hard shots. I have them even after five.

Important sixth then. Duran diving in, Leonard dipping and giving the shoulder. Leonard might have found range with his left hook, even among the mess, he scores a beauty to the body, his best body punch of the fight. Duran is trying for his full reach then closing the distance quickly, jabbing then coming all the way in on the timed charge. Then they exchange up close. This is where the fight is. I can see why this pan makes fistic sense given each man's best weight but Jesus. It's Leonard though that times his attacks in this round. He's almost as smart as Duran in that regard, in timing his attacks based upon where his opponent is in terms of his transience across the ring. This is a Leonard round, narrowly.

Great counter-left hook Leoanard when Duran comes square across his punch. Duran feints inside with Leonard on the ropes but Leonard looks ready to tie him up. The tide has turned tactically at this point. Can Duran now out-monster him? He is dominating the space, mostly, but in the eighth Leonard lands two sizzling uppercuts inside early. That's concerning for Duran - if Leonard has the left hook in on the outside and the uppercut in close, what's his plan? He's feinting forwards and now Leonard gets caught over the tip with a punch while continuing to slip the Duran right with that little move forwards. Duran hits to the body, Leonard lands punches upstairs, agh, on the bell, Duran lands good punches...i can't split them.

I have them even after eight so 9 and 10 are going to be huge if someone can bag both. Duran has shortened up his punching in the ninth and it's serving him, plus, right hands to the side or uppercuts to the pit are serving him inside. Leonard is being dominated for the first time. In the tenth, Leonard lands two good punches early but he looks ragged. Are those puncehs going to hold the round for him? He catches Duran a left to the ear, too, and another with the right as Duran stooped...Leonard is finding the quality despite the shifting fortunes and Duran being more cohesive but a hard bodyshot evens things up a bit...another...thirty seconds left - Leonard surges but misses, they exchange to the body, Leonard wins the exchange - and they're even again, **** me.

I have it a five round fight for all the marbles.

Both tired; both landing very decen tshots. Duran's aggression is keeping him abreast of Leonard's stirring surges. Leonard lands a cracking left hook but Duran is always pushing him back. His best blows are lacking the vigour but they keep coming and Leonard can't quite summon the energy to take advantage of his over-working. Duran edges it on the cuffing stuff. Amazing to see Duran surge back when Leonard tries to steal rounds. Seconds matter.

Two of the best jabs in history and neither is throwing it much, but Duran uses it here, just to inch forwards, just to put Leonard back. They exchange cannon shots. I'll be god-damend though if Leonard doesn't land the harder punches here, even to the body. Even round

Right hand tot he heart, left hook to the ear sets Duran up nicely for the thirteenth. He's s****ing the occasional point with the jab, too. He's doing a good job of slipping Leonard's too. Wonderful counter-left hook from Duran as Leonard goes to the body. This is a Duran round at the half-way mark. Head to head ring-centre. They swap right-hand leads. Leonard hurts Duran at the bell but the damage is done - Leonard needs 14 and 15 to win the fight on my card.

He gets off to a good start in the fourteenth, a sharp left hook upstairs but Duran returns the favour about a minute in. These guys are so perfectly matched that it comes down to who lands the best punches, often. Duran looks arm-weary, Leonard looks tired. You can actually see Leonard summoning the will to punch now. Uppercut right hand is going to steal this for Leonard, some bodyshots to close the deal. I have it all on the fifteenth.

Leonard waves him in. Crazy man. Quiet start though. Leoanrd steps across him and lands a wide slinging right hand that never would have landed in round one. Duran feints him back but can't quite close after that. Leonard lands another slingshot right. This is headed for a draw on my card. Duran is awm-weary. Leoanrd is landing good slingshot blows. He's trying for the knockout I think.

DURAN:2,3,7,9,11,13,
LEONARD:1,5,6,10,14,15
EVEN:4,8,12

 

Cute then you realize Leonard has stated that he knew he lost to Hearns. I guess you know more about it than he does. You know because you are a guy on a boxing forum who thinks he knows boxing.

 

God damn, a heated discussion of non heavies.

I thought it would never happen again.

 

Wow, really? Its amazing the hatred Leonard gets on this site sometimes. Its one thing to have a different opnion, but to change history? Sure you can say Hearns won the 2nd fight, sure you can say he didn't defeat Hagler. But the facts are he did draw with Hearns 2nd fight, (if it was a 15rd fight like the 1st one he probably stops hin again) And Hagler was THE Middleweight Champ. The bigger man, fighting at his natural weight. Did Hagler fight the wrong fight? Of course he did, he shouldve went at Leonard like he went at Hearns. But he didn't, who's fault is that? Hagler and his trainers. Leonard was no where near the fighter he was in the late 80's as he was in the early 80s The multiple long lay offs, the cocaine and alcohol took its toll. But too disparage the mans career is silly... At the least.

 

Agreed. This may be the very first time in all my years of following the sport that I have ever heard anyone claim that Leonard was robbed in Montreal. The guy was in tears FFS.

 

You agree with him that "to even think that SRL came close to winning the fight is absurd"?

Btw, who claimed the decision was a robbery? I might have missed that post/sentence.

 

You need to learn how to follow conversations. Or even just learning to read would be nice though I won't wish for the moon. I wasn't implying that Leonard won or deserved the draw. Quite the opposite. I was responding to the OP who said that Leonard received two gift "wins". I argued that he only record one gift and that was the draw against hearns... that clear enough ?

 

Common.. you guys are the ones saying that it " could have gone either way. ". What would you call that ? I call it a thinly veiled attempt at saying Duran was gifted and Leonard was robbed. For the record Leonard was my favorite of the fabulous four and I've defended him in numerous arguments. But at some point honesty has to prevail over preference. Roberto Duran beat sugar Ray Leonard in 1980 in Montreal. You'd be hard pressed to find perhaps more than 5% of the boxing public who would dispute that fact. And when I hear the same people who make these claims ALSO say that Duran was the "worst" of the fabulous four despite being a concensus top 10 p4p great, it makes me less apt to give such sources any credibility.

 

You just can't make this stuff up.

 

That's a pretty remarkable inferential leap you're making there. Should be obvious but there is a big, big difference between saying a fight was a toss up and saying that the loser was robbed.

 

I've never been able to score that fight for SRL. Not on a round by round basis, nor just looking at the fight as a whole and who'd I'd rather be coming out of that fight. In either case it seems pretty clear. As I stated, I'm not saying it wasn't competitive, it was, and SRL put up a valiant effort. That doesn't mean the decision was all that close. Usually when I've scored it, it has been like 9-6 or 8-5 (2 even). Something like that. Maybe I'll watch it another time and go over it again, but I've watched that fight at least 10 times, and never once did I score it for SRL (if I was keeping track), nor did I ever get any feeling he could've/should've been awarded the victory.

What I'm specifically curious about is how you scored round 8, and especially round 10 for SRL. I can see no way to give him round 10. Round 8 was closer than 10, but that was still a Roberto round or even. Round 6 I can see being given to SRL as you mention. Even round 12, I don't how that could be a SRL round, again it was closer than 8, but Duran to me, pretty clearly won the whole first half of that round. SRL does better in the second half, but nothing special or that got me to go... yeah that's a SRL round. Most of these rounds that you say, could go to SRL, it's more like, you have to be wanting them to go to him or order to really see it. I don't see it. I'll you round 6, but the rest I dont' see it or they are even at worst.

 

I score the 10th to Leonard because even though Duran looks to be the one in control, Leonard always seems to my eye to be the one landing the better, more eye-catching shots during the frame. I also thought Leonard's quality in the latter portion of the 8th was enough for me to shade the round, though as mentioned before it's awfully close. I think a lot of people (not you specifically) focus entirely on the work Duran did. That's understandable...he did a lot of good work in this fight. But SRL did quality work, too and I don't think that should be ignored (again, not saying you do so entirely).

We're not really that far apart on our scrorecards, really. Based on what you said, you can pretty easily get to 8-7 Duran on a scorecard without giving Leonard too much benefit of the doubt. That's where I was the last time. The main difference between us is that I can also see the fight swinging to a close Leonard win, depending on what I was looking for at the time. Either way, I don't buy into the assumption that Leonard got his ass kicked throughout, 'cause that clearly wasn't the case. Anyone who tries to establish that narrative is doing just as much disservice to this fight as those few who would claim that this fight was a robbery in any way. Both views are flawed, imo.

 

Lederman scored the first pac vs bradley fight in pacs favor and pac lost. If he is somehow affecting/fixing the outcome of fights he either isnt as powerful or isnt as informed as you think.