What is a robbery? Video/discussion

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by alexthegreatmc, Mar 15, 2017.


  1. alexthegreatmc

    alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

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    Some pretty good points made in this video, actually emphasizes points I've expressed in the recent past on Kovalev vs ward and even a Mayweather fight or two (although extremely brief).

    The biggest sticking points to me was the topic of momentum and scoring overall vs round by round.

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    Sticking points that I'd like to hear people's opinion on, and nitpick the video if you agree/disagree.

    They mentioned momentum and how the shift in momentum can sway one's opinion on who won the round. Example is round 2 to round 3, Ward gets knocked down but shifts momentum in round 3. Is that enough to win him the round or does a simple momentum shift not warrant this? Granted it was a close round, does the momentum shift sort of act as a boost; the same way a fighter with more power gets the benefit in scoring?

    Winning the rounds vs winning the fight. I've seen, and made, arguments that the reason people believe Kovalev won is because he arguably won the fight. But did he win more rounds? Most people watching don't score the fight live and record their score. Just viewing the fight you would feel Kovalev won, hell I did too despite scoring for Ward. Because Kovalev did more damage overall and had the more definitive rounds.

    Does viewing a knock down cause you to focus more on the fighter scoring the knock down and their work?

    Do people mistake forward motion for dictating the fight?

    These topics were discussed in the video, Kovalev vs Ward isn't the only fight that could be discussed. I'll gladly watch fights and score them using the other examples as well (in time).
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
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  2. rhin0z>

    rhin0z> Boxing Addict Full Member

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    a robbery must be a tabulation because of a decentralized population. Those making the determination can be in alaska or argentina or greenland to australia. Of this population at least a 70% overwhelming majority must choose the looser as the robee. This tabulation comes from tweets , forums, news....ect. a 51% to 49% is too slim of margin it must be overwhelming.
     
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  3. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

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    If Brook Vs Spence Jr goes 12 and we all knew in reality Spence actually won then us Brits will show you a robbery.
     
  4. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    Pac Marquez 3
     
  5. There Will Be Blood

    There Will Be Blood #TheMedicalTeam #750 banned Full Member

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    Mayweather-Castillo I
    Pacquiao-Bradley I
    Garcia-Herrera
    Kovalev-Ward
    Walters-Sosa
     
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  6. MUFA$A

    MUFA$A FEAR * THE * TANK Full Member

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    Yup That was a Robbery .

    Cintron/Martinez was a lot worse doe .
     
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  7. timeout

    timeout Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Robbery=

    May Vs Castillo
    Ward vs kovalev

    Watch and learn.
     
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  8. alexthegreatmc

    alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

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    I didn't want lists, I wanted to discuss the points made in the video lol
     
  9. RazzAxx

    RazzAxx Active Member Full Member

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    If you want to discuss points then present the points you want to discuss lol.
    Robberies:

    May Vs Castillo
    Ward vs kovalev
     
  10. alexthegreatmc

    alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

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    My bad, I just assumed people would watch the video and pick up a discussion from there lol I'll add shortly.
     
  11. alexthegreatmc

    alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

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    Another point they make is that when someone like Mayweather, who typically dominates his opponents, sort of struggles people tend to score unfavorably in his case because he didn't win as wide as he normally does.

    Is a robbery when majority feels the other man won? A lot of people had the score 6-6 with the knockdown being the deciding factor (IntentionalButt (I think) and Stephan A Smith). Is it still a robbery when there's a one point difference?
     
  12. Ahurath

    Ahurath Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A robbery is when a clear winner doens't win the decision. Examples that I can think of at the top of my head:


    Helenius - Chisora for the european title
    Lennox Lewis vs Evander Holyfield for the undisputed heavyweight championship
    Pacquiao - Marquez 3 (I might be wrong here, haven't watched it since live but I thought back then it was a robbery)
     
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  13. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No, wrong, not robberies. Maybe the majority, even sizeable majority thought both official losers should've won, but if so they likely only won by a round or two, and there were several close, 'swing' rounds. And there was a knockdown in Ward-Kovalev and a point deduction in Mayweather-Castillo. Also, I didn't watch much of that video, but their point is how much perception might have impacted who we think is winning or how we score. After Ward was hurt, we might have swayed more to Kovalev when he wasn't effective, or perhaps the other way, we might credit Ward more than deserved for coming back. Similarly we might have credited Castillo vs Mayweather because he was landing and backing Floyd up, but Floyd was certainly landing and boxing well. And undefeated, great boxers were simply challenged in really competitive fights for the first time in their careers, and a lot of people might therefore overrate the success of their opponents.

    Both simply close fights and tough to score. But robbery means there is no way the guy whose hand was raised really should've won. Like the fights Ahurath mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  14. Barrera

    Barrera Defeated Boxing_master Full Member

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    Arobbery is not a competive fight.

    Its that simple. You cant claim robbery when alot of peope have it 1 or 2 rounds either way.

    Martinez cintron is the ultimate robbery.
    Knocked out his opponent and still got a draw
     
  15. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    First of all we have to come to a mutual understanding of what the term 'robbery' means.

    Robbery for me is a fight where the scores differ widely from your scorecard even when you award all of the robbed fighter none of the close rounds. So if you have a fight 8-4 and you feel you have given the other fighter every round you possibly could and the other fighter still wins, then that is an example of a robbery.

    Ward vs Kovalev, Mayweather vs Castillo are not examples of robberies. They are close fights where one could argue the wrong fighter lost but if you notice in these cases the usually more dominant fighter underperformance getting rewarded for the win is what leads to the outrage.

    All I'll say is a 7-5 fight going the other direction is not a robbery in my eyes, it could be seen as a unfair decision but can't be considered a robbery for me.
     
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