Who else thinks a prime RJJ beats the whole LHW division

Fact is the two best 'non Roy' LHW's of his era where DM & Tarver.. When did he run through those exactly??

 

Think Jones and Ward would have been a close close fight, I don't think anyone beats Ward convincingly from any era. Prime Jones vs Kovalev? Don't think Kov would land much on him, however all it would take is one to land.

 

Tyson at least made the big fights and besides Lennox didn't duck anyone. Jones never fought THE champion in any weightclass he was ever in. He always handpicked and took the path of least resistance because of that Chin of his. Jones never beat a unified, lineal, or undisputed champion in his whole career.

 

Roy never even ran through his own era though..

 

Look, If I asked to you to list your top 30 MW's of all time, would you not put Roy on it, due to him only having beaten the likes of: Castro, Hopkins and Tate etc?

Use your eyes man.

You can see the ability he had.

We're not dealing in paper stats. And if you don't think there's enough evidence to have favoured Roy over the likes of Kovalev, then I can fire straight back at you and ask: "Who has Kovalev beaten for you to have favoured over a peak version of Roy?"

I'll give you another example. He only fought at just under 200 pounds once near his prime. That was against John Ruiz in 2003. But look at how well he carried the weight. Look how sharp he was. Now fast forward to 2011 when he fought Lebedev. The version of Roy who fought Lebedev, wasn't even half the fighter who'd fought Ruiz. He was 42 years old, he'd been inactive, and he was static compared to his prime, with greatly diminished reflexes. Yet despite the closing round, he gave Lebedev a very competive fight. And Lebedev is still considered one of the best CW's in the world. So imagine what would have happened if the Ruiz version of Roy had fought Lebedev? Just looking at those 2 fights are enough to convince me that the version of Roy who fought Ruiz, would have had a great shot at beating any of today's CW's.

Now I never actually said that Roy would run through today's LHW division. But after watching his career unfold, I would certainly have favoured him over anybody.

His biggest threats would have been against Andre and Kovalev. But I honestly don't think they could have coped with his speed.

Regarding Roy's top 5 wins at LHW, I think it's subjective.

The win over Tarver was his best one for me. And that was due to him being at an advanced stage of his career, having to lose muscle in just a few months in order to make weight. He was absolutely exhausted but he pulled out the win. So it was the circumstances that made it so impressive.

His win over Griffin was spectacular. I've never seen a guy knock someone out before with a lead uppercut.

His win over Hill was also very impressive. Although he was faded, Roy was the only guy to ever knock him out, and he went onto beat Tiozzo in just a round, a few year later.

His win over Johnson was also a very good win. He made it look so easy.

His win over Woods was also very impressive. Woods was a decent guy who was made to look like a nobody.

 

For many years, Roy was considered the best fighter on the planet, not just at LHW.

 

I can't even be arsed to read that.. I just asked you a basic question. The 5 best ones in Roy's era to suggest he runs through this? That's all i asked of you..

 

So you disagree then? Roy ran through HIS era? Top 3 LHWs of his era..

 

Here is what you seem to not be able to understand. We all know Roy looked good against guys like Grant, Frazier, Hall, and Kelly at LHW. Anyone would look good against them as they were mediocre opponents. When talking about ATG head to head match-ups Roy isn't going to look like he did against Hall or Kelly against Bob Foster or Michael Spinks. Do you understand where we are coming from? My two biggest problems with Roy are his pathetic Chin and his reluctance in his Prime to make big fights and test himself. We know how good Foster and Spinks were because they fought the top contenders of their time. When Spinks went up to Heavyweight he fought THE champion he didn't try and handpick Trevor Berbick or Tim Witherspoon to get a trinket belt. He fought the #1 guy. That is the difference in him and Roy. If you think Roy is going to look like he did against Glen Kelly when fighting Spinks you are delusional.

 

Stop being an idiot.


1. Again: I never said that he would run through them.

2. Again: There is more than enough evidence to put forward an objective opinion that he'd be favoured over them.


He beat top 10 rated fighters with ease, and you can see the attributes that he possessed.


Let's say that tomorrow, you make a thread titled: "Who would you have favoured to have beaten Tommy Hearns at JMW?"

Let's say that I replied with: Roy

What would your reply be?

Would it be:

"Who did Roy beat at JMW to suggest he'd have beaten Tommy?"

You have to look at the bigger picture.


You can't argue that Roy wouldn't have been favoured Andre at LHW, just solely on the grounds that he didn't beat a guy at LHW who was exactly the same.

You have to look at the abilities of each guy.

You have to look at their strengths and any flaws they may have.

You have to objectively try and match them up H2H.

If you're not prepared to do that, it's pointless. Because if you're going to say Roy didn't beat a guy like Kovalev at LHW, I'll just tell you that Kovalev has never beaten anyone at LHW who even resembles Roy at his peak. You're asking how do we know Roy would have beaten Beterbiev? Fine. Straight back at you. How the hell do we know that Beterbiev would have beaten Roy? How many fights has he had? Who's he beaten? At least with Roy, we can look at the attributes that he possessed over 5 divisions, whilst noting how easy he beat top 10 rated fighters.

 

Mate just answer my ****ing question..

The 5 best ones in Roys era to suggest he runs through this? Ok just the best 3 then??

 

Roy got KTFO by Tarver fair and square. It was the second fjght, the drained excuse doesn't fly. Roy's chin is bad, if Stevenson or Kov catch him is all over.

 

Thats like saying Calzaghe avoided Ottkey.

Or Pavlik avoided Sturm.

 

I agree RJJ would clean up against all these guys, especially against Kovalev,
Beterbiev and Stephenson. Ward might be able to use his patented "grab and
hold" style to keep Jones as bay but ultimately would lose.

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Um no. Jones never beat a unified, undisputed, or lineal champion. Sturm was never the #1 Middleweight.