A fighter can operate at world level or he can't. When was there a guy who won a world title and beat contenders without at least being able to win fights at world contender level? For a champion to be half way between being an absolute joke, a fraudulent oaf and someone who paid his dues at the very highest level it would still be a phoney champion. It's like saying "he had a little bit of ability but not enough to do what he actually did" which is also a phoney fighter. This is not manipulated agenda. He's either world class or he's not. Primo was never exposed at a level below on the way to the title. By mcveys reckoning Primo beat at least 9 or so real good men in fights that were on the level. He would have been severely exposed if he was "somewhere in between" But if you have the confidence, put your own poll up. Let's see how it goes.
made more undisputed defences than either klitshcko, so hes the 2nd best superHW champ behind Lewis. though not even sure wlad became undisputed to be fair, someone might need to remind me. He must have had a fair case for it after Haye n PEDvetkin..
.K I didn't say that, I said the only men he beat who were rated at the time excluding Sharkey and Schaaf were Loughran and Levinsky. Loughran was a great light heavyweight but never a great heavy, or even a real good one imo. Levinsky was an in and outer, in better eras he would never have been ranked, and I don't know how he was ranked when Carnera beat him since he had lost 5 of his last 6 fights! Which just illustrates what a p*ss poor decade for heavies the 30's were! And don't bring up Louis,one swallow does not make a summer! 'Id be obliged if you wouldn't ascribe opinions to me that I have never voiced or held.
So here we have mcveys entire total breakdown on Primos career. Please note the first 9 opponents mcvey lists only Godfrey he suspects as being a suspect fight. Each were at the time or had been rated by Ring Magazine in the top ten. So That leaves 8 good wins at world level (that were "on the level") by his own admission. Throw in Sharkey, who mcvey does list here as a fixed fight here and this makes 9 good competitive wins at world level. Sharkey Schaaf Loughran Levinsky Campolo Uzcudun Lasky Neusel Godfrey Santa These are good wins. Mcvey also says 33 low key fights Carnera had were fixed. So if we subtract all the fights he suspects as being fixed, Primo is still left with a respectable record of 56-8 by the time Primo was struck down with kidney failure and lost to Leroy Haynes. So without phoney fights, by mcveys own reckoning, Primo has a genuine record 56-8 and 9 of the 56 wins (with endorsement from Mcvey) are world level wins. That's a good record.
Don't put your agenda on me or Ill make a formal complaint against you. I don't like liars one bit,and you are sailing dangerously close to being that.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I only used your name because I was using the info you put forward about the 33 fights you consider suspect and subtracting them from Primos record to see what legitimate fights were left. I will not use your name in future and apologise for doing so or causing any offence.
Yes this seems to be the case. Primo was unquestionably a real boxer, not a fraud and also one who operated at the highest level with merited wins. A capable champion.
First MMA Star: Carnera was billed as a claimant to the World Wrestling Heavyweight Title by the Colorado Springs Gazette on March 17, 1949 in a preview for his match against Joe Millich. In another preview, Carnera was said to have already toured the country once and this being his second without a single loss and that he was turned onto the sport by [url]Joe “Toots” Mondt[/url]. Carnera faced Millich on March 23, 1949 in Colorado Springs’ City Auditorium. Millich was Promoter Abe Marylander’s and the region’s representative, being the Rocky Mountain Champion, to face the incoming Carnera. He beat Millich with the second and third falls. Carnera did not win the regional title. Two days earlier, Carnera had been in Denver to beat Sing Sing Talun with the final two- falls after conceding the initial. 4,000 fans in Denver watched Carnera defeat the Swedish Angel at Mammoth Garden on January 2, 1950 by disqualification in the third fall. The Angel had won the first in 6:50, but Primo rebounded to capture the second in 5:03. He traveled to Omaha for a January 9th card and an important match against [url]Ernie Dusek[/url]. Carnera was defending both his Omaha Regional Title and his Italian Crown against the local favorite at the City Auditorium. 3,126 fans came out to watch referee Pat McGill disqualify Carnera after the bout had been tied 1-1, and give Dusek both championships. In early 1950, he wrestled legendary champion, [url]Jim Londos[/url] in Chicago. The match was a huge spectacule. Carnera met Gene “Mr. America” Stanlee on May 15, 1950 at New York’s Madison Square Garden in a bout in which the winner was to meet [url]Antonino Rocca[/url] later on in the season. Carnera battled Stanlee to a draw in the semi-final under Rocca’s main even win over Leslie Carlton. The event also marked the death of the promoter of the card, William F. Johnston, who died the night earlier. With Mike DiBiase as his partner on October 23, 1950 at the City Auditorium in Omaha, he lost to Emil and Ernie Dusek. Carnera had the second fall victory over Emil and DiBiase was beaten twice. With a second former boxing heavyweight champion in the ring, Carnera was matched up against Joe Stalin on April 23, 1951 in Denver. Max Baer was enlisted as the special referee for the contest. Carnera won the first, but lost the second to Stalin. When the Russian refused to release a strangle hold, Baer stepped up and was swung upon. Baer punched Stalin, and Carnera was awarded the match.
He was a legitimate oaf and quite possibly a fraudulent champion but I think Carnera paid his dues in the world level.
What do you mean by a legitimate oaf? He was legitimately a big clumsy oaf in general? A big clumsy oaf compared to 190lb boxers? Or a big clumsy oaf compared to men his own size? Please clarify on all three counts. Quite possibly a fraudulent champion? Compared to who? Was primo a fraudulent champion compared to Jim Braddock? Compared to Leon Spinks? Compared to who? And where is the proof? Not on film. There is no filmed proof that we can see of a punch missing, there is no filmed proof of Sharkey NOT trying to win...so that's the film thrown out. How about confessions? Is there title fight confessional testimony of anything underhand? No there is not. And by paying his dues at world level you are endorsing the opinion that Carnera was genuinely good enough to win world level fights. So really, please demonstrate to me the first two points, the grounds there are that he was quite possibly fraudulent whilst at the same time "paying his dues at world level", and the other point. Legit Oaf. Please demonstrate compared to who.
Well as regards to oaf, a lot of good and great heavyweights were oafs. Marciano was crude, Baer was vulgar, Lewis before Steward almost fell over. Carnera wasn't agile or athletic even for a guy that sized compared to say Riddick Bowe or Buster Douglas or Wladimir Klitschko. Fraudulent champion may be a bit harsh but I am unable to see how that knockout has suddenly become beyond reproach when we have Ali landing a cleaner easier to see punch that people say was blatantly fixed. Carnera like Carpentier or Chavez had a few too many calls go his way to say that he wasn't well connected and unlike Chavez he doesn't look brilliant enough on film to justify a retrospective which embraces him as some sort of prototype. All that said Carnera was a big tough guy. It worked against Tommy Loughran and a few others but at heavyweight sometimes that and some good timing is all you need.
fighters don't have to be Fred Astaire. Gymnastic ability is not required. Simply being effective is all that is required. How does Tyson Fury or vitali Klitschko compare to Muhammad Ali? How agile do you think Bowe was against Herbie Hide? How fluid did Buster Douglas look against Holyfield? Fast guys have a habit of making big men look like oafs. That's why I said compared to who? Compared to guys the same size or just 190lb guys? compared to Jim Braddock and Leon Spinks was Carnera any less a fraud? I have never felt Ali and Liston fights were a blatant fix. Do you? Do you think either Ali v Liston fight was a fix? And if so, if you think that, where is the evidence any title fight was a fix? what close calls went Carneras way? Against Stanley Poreda Carnera was robbed to such an extent that the commission banned the referee from working "until he can learn to judge a fight" a very serious thing during the 1930s. is there any confessional testimony casting shadows over any of the key wins in Carneras career? Laughran, uzcudun, Schaaf, Neusel, sharkey and Levinsky? being big and strong on its own will not only take a man so far, it is unlikely to take him even to competitive level as a boxer. It's like saying any big man who is not a boxer might get out of the first round against a real pro boxer. He won't.
Im answering someones word....you need alot more than 30 seconds back with most shyte you post on here my friend.like 30 hours.The shyte posts pretty much match the shyte thread....lmao
