How would you guys summarize Georges Carpentier's career, and how would you size him up as a fighter? Also, if possible, I'd prefer the Kellerman style analysis rather than the Bert Sugar style. Thanks!
Very underrated today as most from his era are. He was a sensation in Europe and came to the US as a sensation as well. As we know he was a many multiple champion in multiple weight divisions in Europe. High quality film shows a superbly conditioned fighter. Great right hand puncher a punch he set up with a probing jab thrown mostly as a feint.
He made a bunch of money against Dempsey.....but way in over his head due to power & size difference. Dempsey did say a Carpentier right hand to Jack's head did hurt him, but Dempsey may have just been being nice to justify the fight in the first place.
Morning Oregonian. (Portland, Or.) 1861-1937, June 26, 1922, Image 11 BY ROBERT EDGREN. Tex Rickard was "mystified" when his first two cabled offers to Carpentier for a match with Harry Greb for the world's light-heavyweight championship brought no reply. Rickard is said to have offered Carp the neat sum of $150,000. Jack Kearns explains that Carpentier can't fight Greb here, being under an agreement not to risk a beating by anyone before the scheduled Dempsey-Carpentier bout, some time within the coming 12 months, in London. Kearns says that fight will draw more than the $1,623,336 gate of the Dempsey Carpentier fight at Jersey City, and that Carpentier can't afford to risk losing the chance to fight Dempsey again, even if a beating goes with the purse. If he loses to Dempsey he can still take on Greb for the light-heavyweight title for another huge purse. England and France would excuse his defeat by a bigger man and hope to see him win in his own class. Jess Willard is one boxer who thinks Greb would beat Carpentier'. "I think Greb is a wonder," says big Jess. "He's the greatest little man I ever saw. He'd knock out the Frenchman in three or four rounds, sure. He may not be big enough to beat Dempsey, but nobody In his own class has any chance with him." Dempsey says Greb is very good, but doesn't think he hits hard enough to stow the French champion away in anything less than a 20-round bout. "And if Georges pops one on Harry's chin the way he did on mine in the second round," Dempsey adds, "Harry might bounce on the floor a couple of times. Oh, yes, he might get up, for that bird has a rubber core and a gutta percha cover like a golf ball." George Engle has changed his mind about taking a European trip just now. He says Carpentier must come to this country if he's to fight Greb. "Harry's claim to the title is as good as Carpentier's," says Engel. "Harry beat the best men in this country Tom Gibbons and Gene Tunney and either of them could have beaten Bat Levinsky easily when Carpentier beat him. I knew Carpentier well in France and have the greatest admiration for him. He's a splendid boxer, game, fast and a puncher. But he hasn't mixed up with a buzz saw yet and if he ever meets Harry Greb he'll have a new experience. He wouldn't have any speed or punch if he was on his heels all the time, and that's where Greb keeps every man he fights." Major Wilson, the English promoter, offered Greb $100,000 and passage to meet Carpentier in London, and the offer was refused probably because the English war tax would not leave Harry enough of that to pay his income tax at home.
The Sunday Oregonian. (Portland, Ore.) 1881-current, July 02, 1922, SECTION TWO, Image 20 GREB-CARPENTIER BATTLE WOULD PROVE INTERESTING American Light-Heavyweight and Frenchman have Widely Different Styles of Fighting BY ROBERT EDGREN –At present only two world's championships, in boxing, are held outside the United States the flyweight and the light weight. Several American boxers have gone to England to take the flyweight title from Jimmy Wilde, but he has been unbeatable in the flyweight class for years. Only one American has beaten him, and that only with the aid of an unfair advantage. Kid Herman was matched with Wilde when he lost the bantam title to Lynch, and went over to fight the, English champion in the lighter class. Herman deliberately came in over weight, expecting to avoid weighing in by simply paying his weight forfeit. It would have been good judgment on,Wilde's part to refuse to go on with Herman, but he didn't want to disappoint the crowd at the last moment, so fought in spite of the difference in weights and was knocked out. The other world's championship is held by -Georges Carpentier, who took the light-heavyweight title by beating Battling Levinsky. Levinsky claimed it because he had taken a decision over Jack Dillon in 1916. But just how far Levinsky went back after beating Dillon in a decision in one of their many engagements is shown by his record. From October, 1916 the date of the Dillon bout, to October, 1920, when he met Carpentier, Levinsky fought 52, ring battles, and won only six of them all on decisions. His real finish as a first-class boxer came when he was foolish enough to meet Jack Dempsey in 1918 and was knocked out in three rounds. When Levinsky fought Carpentier he was fat and slow and had lost all trace of the skill and dash of his earlier years in the ring. Carpentier Has Real Punch, But that doesn't argue against Carpentier's ability. The French man might have beaten Levinsky at his best. He’s a first class light-heavyweight, and good enough to beat most of the second-class heavies and have a chance against any except the champion in the heavyweight division. The best match that could be made for Carpentier is with Harry Greb, the American light-heavy-weight champion, and it isn't unlikely that Greb would win. Still, it would be no betting cinch, for Carpentier has speed and extraordinary hitting power. The most interesting kind of bout is one in which the men are entirely different in style, and the dullest is one in which the boxers are so much alike that each knows exactly what the other will do. No two light-heavyweights in the world differ more than Greb and Carpentier. The Frenchman is brilliant in his ring Work. He is like a big cat in his crafty approach and sudden attack. He learned boxing by meeting a lot of first-class American middle weights several years ago, and in a 15-round fight with Joe Jeanette. The skill he gained in these encounters enabled him to beat English champions like Sullivan, Wells and Beckett with ease. Carpentier is a keenly intellectual boxer. He is very strongly built for his weight, but his fighting ability comes chiefly from his alert mind and ability to Concentrate all energy in the effort to win. In training Carpentier doesn't show much, but ln the ring the change ln the man is astonishing. He fights with caution until he finds his openning then leans in with apparent recklessness and throws everything he has into one or two straight punches. If he lands and finds his man shaken, he stands close and hits as fast a he can with either hand, timing the blows well, so that each has a knockdown impact if it reaches the right spot. If he misses or finds his blows blocked he is out and away, circling to find another opening. Carpentier seemed careless in the Levinsky fight, but in the first half minute he learned that Levinsky was afraid of him and that he had no punch. When he went after Levinsky to finish him he battered Bat down with a rapid fire of punches that dazed him and threw him through the ropes. In the Dempsey fight Carpentier jumped in time and again and landed crashing punches on the heavyweight champion's chin. For a moment in the second round these blows rocked Dempsey and made him swing wildly to keep Carpentier back which, was Bob Fitzslmmons way when he was momentarily in trouble. Greb a Big Bat Nelson. When Carpentier was hurt by Dempsey's heavy body blows he circled around and around, just out of range, avoiding Dempsey's steady advance and looking for a chance to shoot a left at Jack's body and drive that hard, straight right to his chin. There's no doubt that Carpentier was handicapped to some extent by having to wear the New Jersey pillows instead of the four-ounce glove used ln England and France. This took some of the sting out of the blows he landed on Dempsey's chin. But, of course, Dempsey's punches were muffled just as much, and he might have brought Carpentier down quickly with, four ounce gloves. In-the ring Carpentier is graceful as a tiger. His movements are sure and swift and smooth. He drives his punches straight. He is in and away like a flash. He is beautifully accurate. He uses his left hand as well as his right. He usually wins with a hard left drive over the heart, following with a crack on the chin with the right. In the Dempsey fight he may have led with the right too much, but that was because he found his only chance was to get the right over to Dempsay's chin for a knockout. Harry Greb is an entirely different fighting type. He is a big Bat Nelson, but busier than Bat ever was. Without any great skill In boxing, rather ungainly in his unexpected movements, apparently planning nothing as the fight goes along, never waiting for openings, never circling before plunging in never stopping a second to gather his resources for a single decisive punch, he is the most awkward man in the world to fight. Boxers are lost before Greb because he doesn't respond to the usual boxing movements. He doesn't know anymore about backing up or sidestepping than a racing-car driver. There's no use in feinting at Greb, because he doesn’t try to sidestep or shift about to avoid a blow, so a feint doesn't trick him into leaving openings. Feinting is half a skilled boxer's bag of tricks. Greb Steals Wrestler's stuff. Greb's one way of fighting is to rush in persistenly, keeping both arms going every second of the time. Instead of hitting in the usual way, straight from the side with well-directed jabs or hooks or uppercuts, he hits from wherever his hands may have swung to after missing or landing a blow. A punch may come up from his knees or down from over his head. He introduces a bit of wrestling stuff. Frank Gotch once told me that all wrestling was a matter of putting the other fellow off balance. Greb's one fighting theory is that he must not let his opponent “get set” for a blow. "I can beat Dempsey by keeping him on his heels, where he can't hit. me," Greb says, He tries to keep them all on their heels. He beat Tom Gibbons by rushing him off balance and never giving him a chance to start one of his heavy punches. Meanwhile he was pounding Tom with an endless shower of half-arm blows that came from all directions and followed no boxing rule. He whipped Gene Tunney the same way. After the fight Tunney said: There’s no use trying to be scientific with Greb. He pays no attention to it. He hit me so often I didn't see anything but stars, and there wasn't a punch that came over the way it ought to." Applying his wrestling instincts Greb used a trick all through the Tunney fight, continually seizing Tunney as they bumped together and whirling him around or pushing him off balance, immediately starting another Whirlwind of punches before tne bigger man could get back into boxing position: At times this came near to the forbidden line in holding and hitting, and if Greb met Carpentier in either England or France he'd take some risk of disqualification. If Greb fights Carpentier the Frenchman will find this bustling style of attack disconcerting. It may offset Carpentier's boxing skill entirely and force the French champion to do as he did with Dempsey throw all his chance into mixing and trying to shoot over a damaging right Greb's Best Defense, Greb is tough as iron. His thickened ears and flattened nose, with, other scars of battle, show that he has taken many hard thumps and that he makes no attempt to avoid them. He doesn t believe anyone can knock him out. Of course. If Greb relied on "sparring" he'd be hit much more. His "busy bee"' style is his best defense because his rivals are hustled about too much to time their punches deliberately. I took Greb down to introduce him to Carpentier When the Frenchman was training to fight Dempsey. Georges looked Greb over carefully and noted the bumped nose and thick ears. "Georges doesn't carry any scars himself. Both smiled as they shook hands and Carpentier laughingly said he thought Greb, was much bigger, from what he had heard of his fighting. Greb modestly said he was big enough and that he hoped, in a perfectly friendly way, he and Georges could have a bout some time. Carpentier agreed that he would be pleased delighted some day when the Dempsey affair was settled. A "few minutes later they were sitting side by side on the step's, and Harry was showing Georges a picture of his wife and kids that he carried in his watch. Georges dashed into the house and came back with photos of Mrs. C. and the baby girl and when I left them they were holding the photos up and comparing them, chattering and smiling like a couple of old friends. When Greb and Carpentier meet it won't be any "grudge fight," It'll be just a sporting proposition between them, and may the best man win.
I believe a right to jacks head did briefly stun him but it didn't deter him and jack dropped him not long after. It would take more than that to stop dempsey in killer mode.
I don't think Dempsey was going all out in the first couple of rounds,Rickard had asked him to give the crowd a show before putting the Frenchman away.
Dempsey would have probably got the measure of carp with in the first few minutes of the first round. The feeling out process.
IMO, Battling Siki exposed him as nothing special. Greg would have easily beaten him and Dempsey carried him.
Was he that good? Beat all before him in Europe but when he stepped up to face the top Americans he usually lost.
Carpentier was pretty much even with Dempsey in round one and landing easily. Then Carpentier hurt his hand and Dempsey took over. The injury did not change the result, but it might have been more competitive for a few rounds, I'd say Carpentier was a skilled guy with good footwork, but not very big or extra durable, not was he a big puncher above middle weight.
