Harry Greb vs Jack Johnson.

Then you need to notify boxrec because according to you the newspapers and historians are wrong.

" According to the Pittsburgh Post, Harry "boxed rings around Carbone." Carbone was a glutton for punishment and attacked repeatedly despite the "rain of blows to his head." Carbone suffered a bad eye cut in the third round and landed several low blows in late rounds, but Greb did not claim a foul."

"From the report by Charles J. Brill in the Tulsa World: 'There was tumultuous applause as referee Edward Cochrane lifted Greb's hand in token of triumph, for the verdict met with universal approval." Brennan won only the fourth round, seven were even, and Greb won seven (Brill's scoring). Greb seemed to hit as hard as his bigger opponent, and outboxed him thoroughly. Greb won most of the late rounds as Brennan tired. The largest crowd in the history of Tulsa boxing attended."

"After having had so much trouble with Britton in an earlier fight, Greb won every round of this one. He boxed "scientifically" for the first three rounds, then cut loose with his usual barrage. "As the rounds went along Britton began to grow weary. There was nothing to the fight but Greb. Britton banged in a few good ones in rounds 6, 9, and 10, but was overwhelmed. Also, from the Columbus Citizen, "Greb took every round. In none of them was he forced to use the flailing, slam-bang fighting that won him the crown. Britton was outclassed and never had a chence..""

"World Middleweight Title The Pittsburgh Post reported that Greb did not fight in his usual cyclonic style. Evidently fearing disqualification he boxed in orthodox style. Wilson punched mainly for the body, winning the 10th, 14th, and 15th rounds. Greb took all of the others. The 8th was Harry's best round, and next to that the second. Greb won beyond argument even though he fought flat-footed. He was too quick and busy for the plodding Wilson. Nevertheless, it was not of Harry's better showings. (This is from the report of Regis Welsh.) Some writers thought that Greb still used a lot of rough tactics. One writer thought that the fight was close. All accounts showed that it was an ordinary fight, lacking thrills. Neither man was ever in danger of being stopped."

 

So you posted stuff I've already read before, and what's worse, none of them describe this sticking and moving style you describe. They continue to describe him overwhelming his foes with constant punches. Not 2 punches here and there and move and repeat. Why would you post all that, when it doesn't even prove your point?

 

Maybe we can get some idea of how Greb fought by watching tape of Ken Overlin, who was called "a poor man's Greb" during his career.

 

We also know that in an open fight, johnson will grab him on the biceps and wrestle him, which means that Greb will not be able to fire off the multiple combinations from all angles that we think he throws.
Those who say the longer the fight goes the more it is in his favour, i think have it completly backwards. Johnson could fight all day at the pace he fights and often did. i know it is contrary to some of his actual results, but there is no way Greb could come on stronger in a fight like this. And he never knocked anyone out, so he certainly isnt going to start with Johnson.
Grebs only chance, i think , is a small fight maybe a 4 round newspape decision oand catching an overconfident or unprepared Jack Johnson, but even then i think it unlikely.

In real terms, the best chance of this fight taking place was in 1920. So far as common opponents go, Greb fought Bob Roper three times that year and Johnson fought him once. Going solely off boxrec (ie happy to get attacked by Klompton) Greb won most rounds against Roper but Roper did seem to have moments where he hurt Greb in each of the rounds. Johnson beat Roper without trouble, so far as i know. This would have been an even fight in terms of predicting a winner, though i think whoever wins would be comfortable. Personally, i think a win over an old Jack Johnson who was still undefeated since the Willard loss, still beating fringe contenders like Roper and Cowler but who was taken out of the game politically gave Greb the perfect opportunity to put a big former champions name on his resume. High reward for no risk. Greb never pursued this fight. Is it because they saw too big a risk for not enough reward?

Interestingly, Harry Greb's shot (if he really had one) as the world heavyweights champion or at least the number one contender. Pretty much ended in about1925 with the Gene Tunney fight when it seems to have been accepted that he could no longer beat Tunney and he pretty much stopped fighting heavys and campained as a middle or light heavy. By this time, Jack Johnson still hadnt lost a fight and had or would beat fringe contenders like Homer Smith and Pat Lester. Maybe this could have been a time for Greb to sneak an upset win over Johnson?

By the time Johnson did start to show his age in 1926 by losing to big heavyweights, Harry Greb had wound his career down and was also losing (admittedly to very good ones) to middleweights and he sadly he actually died before Jack Johnson retired.

When you think about it, it is quite astonishing to think that Jack Johnson lasted longer as a contender than Harry Greb, when Greb was Just 2 or 3 (maybe younge) when Jack Johnson started fighting professionally. Jack Johnson's longevity really is astonishing.

 

Okay I guess I have to spell it out for you. Sticking and moving = boxing. I've already said that Greb was an aggressive fighter. You do realize a fighter isn't confined to a single style right? It's clear Greb was master of many.

 

Tunney said right hands to the body were very effective against Greb especially the heart area.Johnson didn't hit like Louis etc, but he hit harder than Tunney.

Greb had a unique style,he set a fast pace and accelerated as the fight went on.He and Johnson are exact opposites of each other ,each the antithesis of the other.I think it boils down to can Greb elude Johnson's harder punches for 12 rds ,or will he at some point find himself drawn into a clinch and punished by uppercuts enough to slow his wheels down.Anyone trying to draw a comparison to an untrained fat Johnson who had been out partying the night before against the clever O Brien over 6 rounds in a fight Johnson knew he could not lose because 1.O Brien was not a hitter ,so no danger of being ko'd.2.It was a no decision bout so Johnson could not lose his title,Is either stupid or agenda driven ,in the case of the poster who made this thread, the answer is both.

And they all beat him!lol

 

Which aggressive fighters had success against Johnson?

 

Never seen Greb fight so impossible to say

 

Johnson never fought a single fighter like Greb in his entire career. He fought guys who couldn't even cut off the ring. Like I said, I doubt Greb would fight in a head on style against Johnson.

 

Which is EXACTLY why I said, so you're going to have Greb fight in a style he's not accustom to, against one of the best HW's of all time, and this is going to bring him success? Don't buy it.

 

I already proved he was accustomed to it. We have actual sparring footage of Greb fighting like I described.

 

He wasn't accustomed to throwing 2 punches and moving in an out of there. He was accustom to being AGGRESSIVE AND THROWING PUNCHES FROM ALL ANGLES. People describe him as having like 8 arms, and punches coming from all directions. Does that sound like he was throwing a few punches, moving away, throwing two more punches and moving away? No, it does not. Are you actually using SPARRING footage to say that Greb does and wouldn't fight this way? Do I even need to get into the start differences between a real fight and sparring? What's next, you're doing to show me Greb hitting the speed bag, and tell me how this applies to him throwing punches in a real fight?

 

So do you actually believe he had 8 arms? It's called exaggeration. Greb constantly moved and was throwing punches, not allowing his opponent to get set so it was hard to start an offensive attack.

You have your head so far up your ass man. There would be no point in sparring if Greb fought differently when he sparred than when he fought. Are you saying Greb was an idiot? I don't think you know what the main purpose of sparring is.

Aside from showboating, I haven't ever seen a fighter spar differently from the way they fight. Its completely counterproductive.

 

Greb's famous quote post-final Tunney fight: "Gene (182 lbs), you are just too big for me now".

Johnson 208 lbs, 6 ft., 74-inch reach. Greb 5-8" 168 lbs, 71-inch reach.