Why Jack Johnson would beat Joe Louis?

this is a great post and i am not sure who would win
but fought some great fighters.

the great boxer and coach jack blackburn hated johnson and loved louis like a son but said in a fight.
louis had no shot of beating johnson,

 

Johnson had great hands, skills, quickness but he was stationary much of the time. I think he would do damage to Louis' face and would have him bleeding and swollen. But Louis' superior power would show through and catch Johnson in the end.

Louis KO 15 Johnson

 

Jack Johnson's opponents - as a group - was superior to Joe Louis' challengers.

 

Really? Did you have to say that?

 

I knew his family. and some boxer friends of his....tough Russian Jews from Brownsville N.Y.

 

In all honesty, I really can't see any champion in the first half of the 20th century beating a peak prime Joe Louis. When I say "peak", I'm not talking about the Louis who fought either Schmeling at the begining of his career, nor Walcott or Charles towards the end. Louis between about 1937-1942 was virtually unstoppable, and he was regularly decapitating fighters of reasonable size and credibility. I know Johnson deserves recognition as one of the very best of all time, and for all I know may have given Louis fits, but there's just something about this matchup that doesn't look right in my eyes for Jack.

Frankly, I think Louis beats him rather badly.

 

Didn't Johnson say the way to beat Louis was with the right hand counter over his low left before Schmelling did just that? Johnsons better defense and adaptability would see him constantly countering the mistakes Louis makes. Johnson had the better speed, timing, distance judgement and defense. Louis can be predictable. Louis looked the more emphatic fighter on film, was more devastating if he could get to Johnson and if Johnson goes to the ropes he maybe punnished for it.

So in a nutshell boxing master against aggressive stalker, where the boxing master wins the boxing match but if the stalker catches up to him or lands enough he takes it.

 

I think prime Ali beats them both but these two, Johnson and Louis, would be fairly evenly matched. I guess I would have to lean toward Joe Louis though because, as the saying goes, a great offense is a great defense (or something like that).

 

Johnson has assets to trouble Louis. Feinters can be hard for counterers. Also, Johnson was great at eliminating the mid range.

If we time machine them together, each from their own time, I favor Louis, though Johnson's chances improve if the bout occurs in the conditions of his own day.
If we speculate them coming along at the same time, I'd make Louis a very slight favorite in his own day, Johnson a very slight favorite in the 1900's.

 

Johnson is always a harder man to represent than Louis, what with all the tales and assumptions tangled in his story. As a whole, Johnson most certainly represents a big problems for Louis; if he was in his era, he would prove a plague. More so than the bomber, Johnson was a perfectionist. Jack would never be 'fodder' in the rematch, which Louis' less capable opponents were dead sets to be.

On paper, Johnson has the right, rather modern-day, and economic 'pop n' lock' technique to catch Louis unaware and then stall him up close.

Louis was a more dynamic fighter, but that was when the ball was in his park, when he got his man to do his bidding.

With the versatility card going to Johnson, Louis will find setting up counters to the cuter, 'counter-puncher/clutcher' stylistically debilitating. Johnson would force Louis into awkward situations and that is when his technique would suffer. Mistakes happen and Johnson punishes you.

Louis came into the ring with a blueprint, and, without being unfair, his filmed fights showed that if the opponent ripped up a few of the pages he struggled to re-group.

Circumstances aside, Schmeling got Louis out of his game, and if Johnson could, he has more tools to bury him with.

This sounds rather one-sided, does it not? Ted Spoon must say that this would be the fight that Blackburn would dread the most. The jab is the key punch for Louis to work off as he had a damn fine one and a longer reach, but that is what Johnson would base his counter-strategy against.

Louis was fundamentally brilliant, but not conventionally air tight.

Louis' efficiency relied upon his power, so much to connect, but to set up his man - nobody wanted to be hit by him, so he threw 'placement' punches to contort his man into a vulnerable position - that was the basic plan, and Johnson spotted it.

If Johnson knew how you ticked, he could remove your cogs.

Louis was very tough, mentally sound and had power to burn, so he represents danger to everyman, but Johnson has the complete package to re-direct the fire in this case.

Louis was a measured, counter-punching stalker, Johnson was a cautious, quick, sharp-shooting, physically imposing manipulator. Aspects that gave Louis problems, Johnson represents, and he supplies the others to close the book, not on the outcome, but on the argument that he really does possess everything to foil Louis' crunching combinations better than anyone else.

To Ted Spoons theory, Johnson is the bomb diffuser.

 

Louis by KO within 10 rounds.

 

Well i hope his diffuse manual includes a chapter on improvisation, because Louis throws combinations and jabs; both of which barely any of Johnson's opponents did. Courtesy of a bareknuckle-gloved boxing transition period.


Also, you say that Johnson presents that which troubled Louis often. Joe was often troubled by movement, but Johnson never did that. Throw a punch, clinch, wrestle around a bit, sneak in a few punches, break and repeat is what he did most: Ruiz style. Although he used footwork to get out of the way of rushes, he wasn't really a mover.

 

You dont seem to apreciate that there is a lot more to Johnsons career abn repatoir than the limited selection of films we have at our disposal.

He actualy fought prety much any size shape and style of fighter you can imagine.

 

My personal high regard for Jack Johnson comes from three sources:
a) I respect fundamentals and Johnson on film, though a hundred years ago, shows mastery of them on par with any modern great. This grasp of the basics allowed him to adjust and do basically whatever he wanted in the ring, like his admirer Ali did much later. Adaptability is this man's province. b) Physically, he can hang with any heavy in a fantasy fight. c) This was a mentally mature man who by golly knew what he wanted and how to get it. I always for example envision Mike Tyson, whose mental makeup I happen to respect as that of a guy who came out of the gutter to become world champion, as a boy in comparison. Mentally Johnson is the equal of any heavy ever.

I like Spoon's phrase: Louis was fundamentally great on offense but not conventionally airtight on defense and adaptability. I agree Johnson is a great candidate for Bomb Diffuser.

 

I would pick Louis by late KO. To put it simply it's a great defensive fighter against a great offensive fighter, Louis had fantastic power and quick hands and although he might find it difficult to land combinations on Johnson I think he would eventually prevail.