"Marciano was the hardest puncher I ever seen" - Don Turner

I'm not sure Marciano was the hardest puncher ever. He's certainly in the conversation though. What made Marciano better than guys like foreman or shavers who were probably slightly harder punchers was that Marciano had incredible conditioning. He trained harder than just about any heavyweight of the last 70 years and this allowed him to keep a middleweight pace with punching and allowed him to carry that power late into fights. Guys like foreman and shavers wore down after the 6th-7th rounds.


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I agree with you on the conditioning point but why do you feel that they were probably only slightly harder punchers than Marciano? (just curious)

 

I disagree on the power comparison to Foreman and Shavers

 

Why do you believe that?

 

We know Ray Arcel was on the spot and saw the fighters he spoke about, often either seconding and training them or their opponents.He is speaking from first hand experience and is generally recognized as one of the most respected and revered trainers of fighters to ever practice that trade.
Arcel was born in1899 moved to NY the heart of boxing at the age of 6 and trained fighters in Stillman's Gym from the 1920's whilst living in Harlem.
Arcel trained:
Genaro
Zale
Nova
Escobar
Gavilan
Soose
Garcia
Duran
Charles
Carpentier
Braddock
Bivins
Berg
Armstrong
M&B Baer
Rosenbloom
Steele
Ross
Leonard
Holmes 1 fight
And many others.


In this particular case the person,[ Don Turner,] was 13 years old when Marciano won the title and 15 when he retired. How much gravitas would you give such a young teenager's opinion,assuming that he had actually seen Marciano with his own eyes and wasn't relying on the dusty memories of some unnamed gym rat ?
N.B . Turner was born in Cincinnati Ohio,Marciano never fought there.
Turner was born in1939, Marciano turned pro in1947.
Unless Turner left home at 8 years old and travelled to Rhode Island where 15 of Marciano's first16 fights were held,I think this thread might more accurately be titled.
"Marciano Is The Hardest Puncher I've Ever Been Told/Read About!"lol

ps I wonder How Marciano's unbeaten record would have stood up with Mr Turner,"you don't need a separate cut man, they are an unnecessary expense and a con" in his corner?

"Don Turner, who is Holyfield's trainer and also insists on being his cut man, was criticized after the fight.

"I thought his cut man did a terrible job," Doggett said. "A good cut man could stop that. If it got any worse I would have stopped it."

Turner became Holyfield's trainer and cut man for his fight with Michael Moorer, when Holyfield refused to pay a fee to hire a cut man. Holyfield was cut that night. And his insistence on staying without a cut man almost backfired tonight. Holyfield, who has earned more than $100 million, saved perhaps $25,000 on the cut man"

 

Wow, still knocking Don Turner with the "cut man" incident, eh ?

 

Is it true or is it not?

BTW it was the ringside press and the ringside Doctor that criticized him not me! Both in the Moorer fight and the Mercer fight.

Mercer opened the cut in the sixth round, and two rounds later Referee Ron Lipton halted the bout so that Dr. Frank Doggett could examine Holyfield's eye. The fight continued, but Mercer suddenly seemed energized by the sight of Holyfield's blood. Mercer began showboating, waving his left and throwing his right.

Instead, Holyfield somehow managed to suddenly come back. He knocked Mercer down with a left hook, and swatted him again while he was down. From that point on, the fight was in Holyfield's control.

Don Turner, who is Holyfield's trainer and also insists on being his cut man, was criticized after the fight.

"I thought his cut man did a terrible job," Doggett said. "A good cut man could stop that. If it got any worse I would have stopped it."


If you've got a problem with Turner being criticized for his inept corner work in those two fights I suggest you take it up with them.

 

I'm questioning if Turner ever actually saw Marciano fight in the flesh,and the funny thing is if Turner had said Marciano's power was very overated you would be the first one jumping up and down saying," the dates don't add up, he never saw Rocky!
You two faced, double standard, little hypocrite!

 

It's true that Don Turner was criticized by others for not having an extra cut man in a certain fight, and for saying he could do it himself.
Nothing else is proven. It's all opinion. His record is good.
And I'm not sure why you keep going on about it.

It certainly seems to be you are revelling in trying to discredit Turner, still.

 

Nope all I'm doing is questioning if he actually saw Marciano fight,the maker of this thread began it with a clear agenda,and used a short clip to boost that agenda.Since Turner was 13 years old when Marciano won the title I think its perfectly valid to question his authority on the subject!

Turner was discredited by those I named ,not me ,I just posted their opinions of him.
Turner was criticized in two fights, not for taking one the role of cut man, but for doing a lousy job of it!
If he had said Marciano is the hardest puncher I've seen on film , or read about that would be a horse of another colour.

 

Marciano is certainly top 10 atg and would be a match for the bigger men that followed him. Rip.

 

Of this there can be no question. Turner would be a victim of low quality film and "Boxiana."

 

Yeah those grainy old low definition films Reznik referred to!lol

 

A great fighter certainly but now just out side my top ten where he resided for 30 odd years. Lewis , Holyfield ,and Tyson have moved him to number 11.