I didn't think it was an opinion to be fair, I thought it was fact that the World Heavyweight Champion was the King of all sports and recognised as such
I would have Liston beating all on that list, aside from Ali. And all aside from Holmes and possibly Vitaki by KO. Each to their own, though.
Well it very obviously isn't now. You probably mean it used to be. But that isn't the question. The question is whether or not a heavyweight (Liston) should be "punished" in terms of historical standing, more heavily than a welterweight (Duran) for quitting; in other words that it is worse for a heavyweight to quit than a fighter in another weight class. That is an opinion, and it's a ludicrous one.
You got to love the logic on this board sometimes... Liston's best win is against a man that was 25 pounds lighter and at a significant reach disadvantage. So hes the H2H monster with the modern Powah to knock out the super heavies. Marciano, Louis, and Lanford knocked out class fighters that were 30+ pounds heavier but...they are the ones with the overrated power that couldnt handle bigger men.
That's why I don't get into these arguments too often. Somebody that thinks he only loses to Ali will be difficult to reason with.
You must not have seen a single authentic top ten list by a magazine published BEFORE the Liston renaissance (around the 1980s that came about after the people who saw Sonny began to die off) since the adults who had witnessed more than a few champions before Liston did not rate him in the top ten at all. Not one bit. Seems like Sonny got a listing only once the schoolboys from the 1960s grew into boxing authorities. Nat Fleischer, Founder of Ring Magazine, 1971. Jack Johnson Jim Jeffries Bob Fitzsimmons Jack Dempsey Jim Corbett Joe Louis Sam Langford Gene Tunney Max Schemling Rocky Marciano Charley Rose, 1968 Sam Langford Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Joe Louis Jim Jeffries Gene Tunney Sam McVey Rocky Marciano Jim Corbett Max Baer Nat Loubet, 1975 Joe Louis Jack Dempsey Jim Jeffries Jack Johnson Rocky Marciano Gene Tunney Bob Fitzsimmons James J. Corbett Muhammad Ali Joe Frazier John Durant -Author of "The Heavyweight Champions" (1976) Joe Louis Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali Gene Tunney Joe Frazier Jim Jeffries James J. Corbett Rocky Marciano Max Schmeling Bill Brennan 1978 (Former President of the WBA) Muhammad Ali Joe Louis Jack Dempsey Jack Johnson Gene Tunney Jim Jeffries Max Schemeling Rocky Marciano James J. Corebett Bob Fitzsimmons
Of course. But almost any great fighter is underrated until they have been retired for some time. Sonny is hated for his personality, coldness, being a criminal and his past prime performance. I'm rating the prime fighter, not his character.
But Sonny was unranked as an ATG top ten HW for over a decade after losing the title. Other champions, less thought of now by the internet generation, registered in top ten rankings much closer to their retirement than Sonny did. It seems Listons ATG appeal was very slow burning to register. It gained no real support until much much later. I think it is significant to hold on to where the adult boxing aficionados rated Sonny closer to the era Liston fought in. Sonnys prowess is based on the eye test in winning easier fights on paper, blow outs. It is a very thin resume compared to other champions who were a top ten lock for many years before Sonny eventually began to register.
So this is another excuse. "Sonny is hated for his coldness, personality and being a criminal" what about Jack Johnson? I don't believe Jack Johnsons high ranking for most of the last century was based on his warm personality and being of high moral fibre. What ever Johnson was it never effected his ATG rating. And he came before Sonny Liston! There is a very long list of excuses of why Sonny should rank higher than he did during era that preceded his career. He did not feature. Why was this?
It is the truth The guy was reserved, cold and had little charisma. Ali was a loudmouth who recited bad poetry. So his post prime stinkers are ignored