My Probably Too Long Thoughts on the Hall of Fame Candidates for 2018

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TheMikeLake, Oct 17, 2017.


  1. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    (Warning - Very Long)

    (Note - I also posted this on a site you may have read it on.)

    I wrote this as part of an exchange to my father. We like to discuss these types of things. Before I knew it, I was going down the list one by one (32 Candidates) giving my opinion on the 5 I would vote for, which is what the rules dictate. From the top 5 votes this year, three on this list will be chosen. This is really long, so thank you to those that take the time to read it. I was honest with the names where my boxing knowledge is limited (most of the small guys who fought in the 70s and the 80s). When I wrote this I didn't think I'd be sharing it, but here it is and I hope you enjoy.

    Yuri Arbachakov - I feel I have a pretty strong knowledge of boxing in this period, and for a fighter to be on this last that I never heard of doesn't bode well for him making the HOF, but then again, I'm not being asked. He only fought 24 times, only once out of Japan, losing once, his final bout. Won the WBC Flyweight title in like his 12th fight and defended it to his lost it in his last fight to a guy he had already beat. Seems like a nice career, but not HOF worthy.

    Paulie Ayala - Well, here's an interesting one. He beat Johnny Tapia twice. Tapia is in the HOF. He didn't generate the buzz of a Tapia, but he fought everyone, only losing to the very best. I don't think Ayala would be out of place in the HOF, but with the rest of these names, I'm not sure he makes my top 5.

    Nigel Benn - I don't think he made my original top 5, but on second look, he gets really close. He had a long middleweight reign, including beating McClennan, in the fight that permanently injured McClennan. Another name that wouldn't look out of place in the HOF, but maybe not in my top 5 of this list.

    Ivan Calderon - This is Calderon's first year on the ballot, and rightfully so. He has a similar problem as Arbachakov because he fought at the smallest weights. But he beat everyone until the end of his career, when he lost 3 of 4, his only 3 losses. I think the smaller fighters - who made their bones overseas - are going to have a hard time making a HOF that counts on fans from america to show up for a few days once a year to pump up the economy. In a real HOF he probably makes it. Yet again, another guy you wouldn't bat an eye at when you see how good he was for how long.

    Sot Chitalada - Seemed like another good little fighter, but at 26-4-1 I'm not even sure he was the best among those that fought in the same divisions as him at the same time.

    Donald Curry - Tough one, he was the man at welterweight at one point, but I don't see any great names on his resume, but certainly good ones. Welterweight was a popular division in this day in age, and for him to not be in the HOF already sort of surprised me, but at the same time, there were a lot of good fighters from that era to choose from, which they apparently already did.

    Chris Eubank - Another one I'm sort of surprised that isn't in. Maybe the HOF is a little more elite than I think, but then you see Gatti is in (no offense he's my favorite ever, etc) and you think Eubank and Curry are surely in.

    Leo Gamez - Well, his record of 35-12-1 certainly doesn't help his argument. He was a multiple champion at smaller weight classes, however. I don't recognize a name he beat and based primarly on this recent research, the names I slightly recognize seemed to have beat him.
     
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  2. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    (part 2)

    Ricky Hatton - This is the first unequivocal "yes" for me. Not only will he bring a boatload of fans from the UK to upstate NY for the festivities, but he was really darn good. We watched him beat Tszyu - who was in all time great - and only lost to surefire HOF'ers. I'd be surprised if he's not one of the names there in June.

    Genaro Hernandez - He's been eligible since 2003. His only losses were against DLH and Mayweather Jr. He beat Azumah Nelson, and won two major titles. This is another one that makes me question how much I know about boxing sometimes or how the HOF works, anyway. Hernandez seemed really good, only losing to the best, like Hatton. He passed in 2011, maybe a posthumous award would be nice.

    Julian Jackson - Jackson is one of my favorite ever fighters to watch on youtube. Absolute murderous puncher. He either won by KO or got knocked out. He had the unfortunate circumstance of coming up in one of the best middleweight divisions of all-time. I don't think I have a problem with him not being in a true HOF, which I think is how I'm trying to view this. If you've ever seen a KO compilation on youtube, you've seen a Jackson KO.

    Vitali Klitschko - Easiest yes of the bunch for me. Only losses were two fights he was losing - one to Byrd where his shoulder popped out - and the Lewis fight where his fight was stopped because it looked like he has been hit with a weed whacker in the face. Vitali didn't fight in the best era, but that wasn't his fault. He stopped everyone that was put in front of him, including deep into his years.

    Santos LaCiar - Another small guy I haven't really heard of. He went 79-10-11 with many of those losses coming when he was like 19 to 21. Once he won the flyweight title he seemed to hold it forever. I don't know how to adequately judge these small guys. The HOF might not know how either.

    Rocky Lockridge - A little guy I've actually heard of. He fought Chavez close, losing a MD. He won a version of the title a couple times but didn't appear to hold onto it long. Looks like he lost most, if not all his biggest fights.

    Miguel "Happy" Lora - One thing is clear with this exercise, I don't know much about the history of the little guys. I don't know if the HOF is looking to give them more respect with how many of them are on the ballot this year, but it seems it could be the case. Fought a lot of the top guys, and had the title for quite a while. I don't think he would be misplaced in the HOF, though I can't confidentially vote for him.

    James "Buddy" McGirt - Another name I was sort of surprised isn't already in the HOF. However, upon review of his resume at greater detail, I sort of get it. He doesn't appear to have beat anyone in the HOF, and lost seemingly close fights to the ones he did. Sweet Pea twice and Meldrick Taylor. Between his work as a trainer and boxer he should probably be in the HOF one way or another, especially if you were to combine the two.

    Henry Maske - The only fight he lost was a SD to Virgil Hill, in Germany. Being Germany he must have been knocked out to lose the SD. All kidding aside, John Scully once told me - who fought Maske - that Maske was very mechanical, but it was a very effective mechanical style. His resume isn't that impressive, and he seemed to get out of the game before he could have really tested himself against the better class of light heavyweights that came along shortly after he retired. I'd say this is a no for me, but not an easy no.

    Dariusz Michalczewski - He was very good. I think on the first skim of the list I put him as one of my five to make it. As of now, he'd be like the 3rd one I'd give a yes too, but I'm not sure he will make the final cut. DM was so good that Roy Jones Jr probably ducked him. However RJJ said he never went overseas to fight DM because of what happened to RJJ at the Olympics (he was robbed) DM beat many of the same guys as RJJ. DM was 48 and 0 at one point, before losing his final 2. For 10 years he was one of the best Light Heavyweights in the world, and THE best not named RJJ. Wish they would have found a way to fight.

    Sung-Kil Moon - A super flyweight from South Korea that I am guaranteed to know next to nothing about. He lost twice in 22 outings, but likely didn't really have anyone else to fight past that, as he appeared to be fighting for titles at an early age. It's hard to judge these guys because they're aren't many of them, and of course, they aren't well known. He'd be a pass for me, but I feel a bit bad a lot of these small guys have been overlooked, and likely it will stay that way.

    Michael Moorer - I firmly believe anyone who held the top title in the heavyweight division should probably be in the HOF. Buster Douglass would be an interesting argument. What's often forgotten about Moorer - in addition to being the only southpaw to win the heavyweight championship - is that he was also a very good light heavyweight, if not the best, for a time. He beat Holyfield, but then lost to Foreman, which is what of course most people remember. My favorite Moorer win is probably when he came out of nowhere to beat Jirov very late in his career. If it's not an easy yes for me, it's a pretty confident yes. That would be number 4, and we still have a long way to go ...

    Erik Morales - Morales might take over Vitali as the easiest yes on the list. Along with Barrera, these two put the small guys on the map. He fought too long, but that shouldn't hurt his overall standing. I would bet a lot of money he will be inducted come next summer. One of the best.

    Orzubek Nazarov - Fought 27 times, losing his final fight. I mean, I don't know. Another title holder and seemed to avoid (retire before) having to fight the best the lightweight division had to offer. As far as I know, he's the only fighter I've ever known to be from Kyrgyzstan, for what that's worth.

    Sven Ottke - Ottke arguably got the most gift decisions in the history of boxing, and he was incredibly protected. He fought 34 times, winning all, but only winning 6 buy knock out. He only left Germany once, early in his career. So many close calls in his career. His career is why German's get a bad rep as judges and nobody wants to go there. Pretty easy pass for me.

    Vinny Pazinza - This could be an interesting one. He's a personality that the HOF organizers would like, and he had a movie come out about his life recently. Him beating Haugen for the title in R.I. - where he was born - is an incredible scene and worth a look a youtube. I'm just not a huge fan of his resume, but again, if you have Gatti in the HOF, there's a chance he makes it for many of the same reasons.

    Gilberto Roman - Roman fought a few of the other small guys on this list, so it does appear the HOF is trying to give some acknowledgement to this era of little guys. Roman died young, at 28, three weeks after losing to Moon. Still, he fought 61 times before dying at the age of 28. He went 1-1-1 with Laciar. He might have the biggest argument to make the HOF out of the other guys in this era on the list. You would have liked to see what else he could have done with career, being he died so young. However, he lost 2 out of his last 3, so perhaps we had already seen the best his career had to offer. I don't think he'd make my top 5, but I'm interested to learn more about him.

    Gianfranco Rosi - This is a name I've ran into on boxrec rabbit hole nights before. He fought - but not actively - until he was 49. His resume is sneaky good, but not great. He held the IBF version of the Super Welterweight title for quite a long time. I don't think he'll make it, and I'm not sure he deserves it, but he seems like he was a world class fighter for quite a while. Like Ottke, he had little power. 16 KO's in 62 wins.
     
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  3. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    (part 3, lol this was crazy long)

    Samuel Serrarano - Another smaller guy from a period I didn't follow much. The only name I recognize on his resume is Roger Mayweather, who he lost to. Again, that doesn't mean too much as I don't know much about this era. Because of that he will be a pass on my end.

    Meldrick Taylor - Taylor is unfortunately known for losing to Chavez with 2 seconds left while winning, and for fighting wayyyyyyy too long. He's legitimately the fastest fighter I have ever seen on film. The first time I saw him - probably his fight with Chavez - I was blown away with his speed. He beat McGirt and gave Aaron Davis his first loss. I don't know if that's good enough for a HOF nod. Probably closer than I originally thought, though.

    Fernando Vargas - One of my all-time favorites. I don't even really need to look up his record to know most of his high spots (and low spots). He won the title at 20 years old. Many people it was too much too soon, but being he fought sporadically later in his career because of a debilitating back injury it was then or never. The two things that stand out to me about his career is the comeback he was mounting against Trinidad, when Trinidad blasted him in the nuts and later won by KO (not saying he would have won but it was getting really good) and that he couldn't beat DLH while he was roided to the gills. His resume was VERY good early in his career. a few should be or could be HOF'ers on there. He still carries a big name, and being he won the title so young I could see him making it one year, but probably not this year.

    Wilfredo Vazquez - Another name I remember from when I first started really get into boxing. My initial thoughts are/were I don't think he's a future hall of fame member, but let's take a closer look. Looks like he won titles in 3 weight divisions. I really remember him for his lost to Hamed, but at that time, everyone was losing to Hamed. He seems he was among one of the best little guys for quite a while. But again, not really my forte here. He would be a pass for me.

    Ratanapol Sor Vorapin - A mininumweight fighter, so not sure what I can offer here. He started boxing at 16, and won a title in his 15th fight. He didn't lose from 1992 to 1997. Some of the records of the fighters he fought during his title run were not very good. However, he fought in Thailand, and those records can be hard to verify. I see he lost his only fight in America, which is sometimes a sign of protected fighters. Pass for me.

    Ronald (Winky) Wright - Winky was not fun to watch, but he was very good. He beat Mosley twice, and whitewashed Tito. He could have gotten the nod against Vargas and Jermain Taylor. This is his first year of eligibility. I don't think he got a lot of credit in his career, but I think he deserves to be one of the five - If I have any room.

    Upon second look. I see there are six boxers on the list that I think should be in the hall of fame. They are -

    1. Ricky Hatton
    2. Vitali Klitschko
    3. Dariusz Michaelczewski
    4. 4.Michael Moorer
    5. 5.Erik Morales
    6. 6.Winky Wright.
    Others receiving votes include - Meldrick Taylor, Fernando Vargas, Ayala, and Jackson.

    So from the 6, I have to eliminate one. If I had to guess, the 5 the writers, and the HOF choose will leave out DM (please don't make me spell that name anymore!) Ricky Hatton, Klitchko, Moorer, Morales, and Wright would be a darn fine HOF class. However, personally I'm having a very hard time narrowing it down to 5. Even thought I think Moorer should be in, his reign at the top was a short one. But, the history associated with the biggest title in the biggest weight division makes it hard to eliminate him. With DM, you can almost make the argument that if you have RJJ in there (which will 100 percent make it on his first ballot) you could have DM. That may not be the best example, but it's not a terrible one, I don't think, especially when it comes to their light heavyweight resumes. I guess it will be the american coming out of me, but I think I take DM out.

    I think the biggest thing this whole exercise taught me is that I don't know much about the little guys. I would guess a large majority of the people who actually get to vote on these things don't know much about them, either. I felt like I learned something researching them, and that is cool.

    Finally, Winky Wright, at least on paper, was a lot better than I remember. I said something about Maske being mechanical, and I felt the same about Wright. But the way he beat top notch guys using his own style was really impressive as a fan of boxing.
     
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  4. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Dmitry Bivol was born in Kyrgyzstan (raised in Russia though) and Kid Diamond aka Almazbek Raiymkulov is from there too.
     
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  5. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Cool. I know you guys here would smarten me up on my admittedly large gaps in knowledge. Thanks for the info.
     
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  6. Outstock

    Outstock PBR Full Member

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    It'll be interesting to see if Vitali gets in. I wouldn't argue against his case had he beaten Lewis , but he lost that fight and didn't make up for it by beating anybody remotely better even though Lewis was old and past his best.
    His best wins came against Arroela and Peter who proved could be easily beaten by D level guys like Stiverne and Chambers. The Byrd loss doesn't do him any favors either. He's certainly not a first ballot lock imo.
     
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  7. Todd498

    Todd498 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Dr Iron Fist HAS to get in.

    This content is protected


    Whooped Briggs ass like he stole something :) Boy shouldn’t have talked all that trash beforehand.
     
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  8. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This is where I argue that you can only beat who was put in front of you, and in this case most of who he fought was the best of the (weak) bunch. He didn't beat any future hall of fame members, but in this case there were none to fight. I personally think he is probably the easiest of the bunch to include.
     
  9. Outstock

    Outstock PBR Full Member

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    I don't believe somebody should get in by default of existing a weak era. If that was the case Maske , Ottke etc would have gotten in years ago.
    Plus , Lewis was put in front of him and he lost , so he didn't beat everybody who was put in front of him. He also never sought out the best that were available.
    He defended his belt against a non ranked Briggs who hadn't a good win in almost 10 years.
     
  10. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I know this is a phrase that isn't heard of much around this forum, but I think we will have to "agree to disagree."
     
  11. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    No problem. I actualy forgot Bivol was born there.

    Nazarov retired after suffering a really bad eye injury that left him almost blind in it

    If you Google 'Orzubek Nazarov blind' you'll see a great article on him and about it on the Nazarov vs Mosley link. I can't copy and paste it here because my PC is broken and I'm on my PS4
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Top work Mike. I think all six have a good case. The top three to me are near locks though I'm not sure Hatton is the biggest name of the bunch.
     
  13. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I have a feeling that Dariusz will be the odd man out. I think he deserves it, of course, but that's just a gut feeling.
     
  14. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am not sure I have ever seen a heavyweight land that many hard right hands on a fighter with a documented weak chin like Briggs and not stop (or at least drop) him. Briggs was tired after the second round and made absolutely no attempt to keep his left hand up. Yet he still made it to the final bell. The rumors of Vitali's elite punching power have been greatly exaggerated. He is huge, and hits hard. But, he falls well short of the true elite heavyweight punchers. This fact was of little consequence in his career since the vast majority of his opponents were so bad. (either through lack of skill, or often, a lack of conditioning such as Solis, Kirk Johnson, Sam Peter, Briggs, etc.)
     
  15. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think you'd find yourself in the minority saying Briggs has a "documented weak chin."