Who hit harder?

There's plenty of testimony, some footage, records etc. It's perfectly ok to envision Williams could have hit harder than Frazier with his best punch. The way you carry on it's a sacrilege, impossible. Don't be so narrow minded and agenda driven.

Your powers of comprehension are terrible. Or maybe it's just your agenda. The thread is about the hardest hitter, not the most accomplished!!!!! Tyson's dramatic ko's over his early opponents were lapped up at the time and showed the man had massive power. These ko's were immensely hyped well before Berbick.

You don't seem able to comprehend or accept the topic, as insanely simple as it is.

Guys like John Mugabi never ko'd a top foe. Do you think his power isn't rather dramatic?

Such narrow and closed mindedness. One could give you ay amount of rock jawed "lesser opponents" scattered throughout history. Have some respect for them.

You fixate on Daniels because you think it somehow proves Williams was no great shakes as a puncher. You can find a Billy Daniels in the records of almost every great puncher. Hearns and Foster had them and they are myriads ahead of Williams as fighters and bigger P4P punchers to boot. Don't be so close minded even tho it suits your given agenda.

Like Daniels you have also exhumed and fixated on Baby Booze in an effort to project most of Williams opponents being in the same bracket and discredit all of his ko's over lesser names. ESB just isn't that stupid.

And there's Baby Booze and Daniels again in the very next paragraph! Who woulda thunk????

There's that lack of comprehension again.

What has Carnera got to do with the topic?

Championing a guy? I have implied he may hit a touch harder than Frazier on their best single blow. This is championing?

Also, what has Carnera being a better fighter with even more muscles who beat rated got to do with me thinking Williams might h9it harder than Frazier? What in gods name is the connection? Can you not understand the topic?

Should we not be allowed to credit a guy for power because he isn't as good a fighter as Primo, has a lesser record and has less muscles? Wtf?

You are obsessed.

I do however have one question.

Would you say for "certain" Williams is a "huge puncher"? Would you support this description?

 

So how old were they when Joe fought them u left that out

 

The big thing is Billy had only ever lost to Muhammad Ali when he first fought Williams. He had 13 losses by the time Frazier fought him and had lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Double standards at their finest.

 

No the bigger thing is Billy was Williams level. Nothing wrong with that. Billy was a good fighter with a lot of mileage in front of him when he met Williams. But their two fights show that The big Cat was a puncher only up to a level. Guys like Billy and above him, williams never could register that power against. That's the hard truth.

And Billy is only one example. Frankie Daniels. Remember Frankie? Twenty rounds with Williams two minutes only against Sonny Liston. And Sonny fought Frankie next. It was right after ten rounds with Williams.

That's why Liston allowed Williams the bigger purse. Cleveland was obviously wary of going in against a man like Sonny who had laid out a guy in two minutes that gave Cleveland two hard ten round fights.

 

I don't follow you on strength and power. Of course they're two different things.

And I didn't insult you. But you're right that it's contradictory of me spending so much time on a subject I think is pretty silly. It just annoyed me when Choklab fully knowingly tried, ans still tries, to distort the difference between being a powerful puncher and being an effective puncher and fighter. Even though I wasn't at all involved in the argument to start with. But enough is enough. I'll pull put now.

 

It looks like Conor's fans and his camp is creating it sound like he's this knock out creative person which will create his blow power translate into fighting against the planet category competition in boxing.

I don't assume Conor would win once if they were to fight a thousand times, however I suppose in theory it's attainable. i assume some individuals do win lotteries although likelihood is that virtually slim to none.

Just questioning although, World Health Organization does one truly assume hits harder? Conor has bee koing guys, but I mean, are you able to imagine Mayweather in mma gloves?

Unlike some guys who's giving a not lots of probability for Conor to induce out of the primary spherical, i do not assume that is very little phantasmagoric. i actually doubt Mayweather can take any probability of obtaining caught within the 1st spherical one, and from what i am reading from what their camps area unit language, it positive hell does not sound like he is reaching to start up like guns blazing and take Conor out ASAP. with great care a lot of to lose if he ever loses.

 

Punching power doesnt matter if your opponent can see every punch coming a mile away. Those pretty clean KOs often result from a quick well times accurate shot. Only a true freak like foreman can hurt and KO opponents with shots they see coming.
So if a fighter says so and so hit really hard because it felt like a sledgehammer when he hit me...,that doesnt mean that much in terms of real world results because fighters are conditioned to take and roll with hard shots as long as they can see them. Yeah the guy's face or head might hurt but if he sees the shot and manages to survive then for all intents and purposes that power doesnt look impressive or produce impressive results to an observer who doesnt have to take the punch himself

 

It's not plenty enough to surpass Joe Fraziers punching ability. There is as much info on Lamar Clark and Charlie Retzlaf.

what particular knockout of Williams impressed you? Simple question.

how many rock jawed opponent types did Williams knock out that nobody average did not knockout too?

I know all punchers don't knock guys out all of the time and that's okay. But usually they can knock out guys 21lb lighter or on occasion an elite fighter if they get lucky. Not so Williams. And there is nothing wrong with this. Just don't rate him above Joe Frazier.

I never assumed ESB was so stupid. But who are the other lesser names, Graveyard walters? Ok I know eventually Williams gravitated to knocking over guys like Todd Herring but that's still not worth getting carried away with. Todd was a fellow Texan who donated blood to Williams and was rewarded by getting a real hiding from Williams. It's just local level.

Everybody fought one Baby Booze type. Williams fought about 40 of them. But that's ok. He was groomed by influential managers that way in order to navigate his way into a big payday but it took him a few times, each time he got that pay day he was back to that level. so he went back to that circuit after each set back. There are a lot of guys like that. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't put them ahead of Joe Frazier.

Primo has a lot to with the topic. He was groomed in exactly the same way. He has a high percentage of knockouts that were not seen on film too. Primo was badly knocked out by Joe Louis, Max Baer and Williams was badly knocked out by Ali, Satterfeild and Liston.


What I want to know is why Williams and not Pat Comiskey or Charlie Retzlaf? Thus is whom Williams should be measured against not Smoking Joe Frazier.

yes it is. Boxing in about levels. Williams is Charlie Retzlaf level. Pat Comiskey Level. The three of them, Williams, Comiskey and Retzlaf, They were are super human punchers at that level. But it was just that level. The power was rarely featured once it got to even fringe guys.

I would say for certain Joe Frazier was a huge puncher. I would say Williams was a fine puncher (for his size) who was impressive up to a level. because he was.

 

Neither Bugner or Mathis were physical fighters in any sense, this is a blatant attempt to bolster up Frazier. Frazier fought one top hitter and got buried!

 

This post has plumbed the depths of stupidity.

 

1.Many ,[including me,] regularly place Harry Greb as the number 1 p4p No one alive has seen him fight.
2.Many journey men have excellent chins Scrapiron Johnson,Ross Puritty,Dave Allen, Chuck Wepner etc,etc.
3. Daniels was not B level he was a Ring ranked top ten heavyweight both times he fought Williams.
4. Primo Carnera and his fixed fights have absolutely no relevance to this discussion.

 

https://www.google.co.id/search?cli....536.3...549.nLjwL49WPNU#imgrc=EzNurP-OyiVJNM:

VS

https://www.google.co.id/search?cli...1055.3...905.s23GCI0ptr8#imgrc=LeCGDwbNfQPRIM:

 

did Williams knock out these type of characters though? I don't think he did.

 

Exactly, there's loads of blokes walking the streets that can hit like a mule. It doesn't count though if they never step into the ring to show that power.

 

Quality post, if only some could understand such simple facts.