The Louis that fought Rocky was not shot.

I actually thought about this the other day, how underrated this win probably has become. It's not like Holmes-Ali. It's more like Ali, in good shape, of say 1977-1978. Maybe even 1976 Ali. Someone that still would be a tough fight for most fighters around, and who'd beat the better part of them.

Louis gave a good account of himself in this fight, I'd say, he just couldn't deal with Rocky's pace and pressure at that age.

 

Ali looks pretty good in the first round, but then his diseased, wrongly medicated body catches up to him and he gasses almost instantly. Yeah, hugely admirable that he could stay another 9 rds with Holmes with nothing in the tank, but probably would have been better for his health if he went out like Louis did.

Just makes me sad that Louis had to come back after Walcott II and that Ali wouldn't quit after Manilla.

 

Louis dug deep, the relentless pressure at this stage of his career was too much for him. Terrible opponent to have to face at the tail end of your career. Marciano looked much smaller than him too !

 

I would look at it like this:

At his peak Louis was head and shoulders above anybody else who was contemporary with him.

There was simply nobody that you could compare him to.

By the time of the two Walcott fights he was severely depleted, but he was still at about the same level as Walcott or Charles, at their respective best's.

By the time of the Marciano fight, he had clearly slipped below the level of Walcott and Charles, but he was still among the best of the rest.

So I think that you can acknowledge Louis's slippage, while still placing a significant value upon the win.

 

Weve been over this.

You cant have it both ways.

If the post ww2 louis wasnt shot, then all the times he struggled or looked bad have to be factored into h2h and resume discussions. If thats fine with you, great, but dont try to backpeddle in the future.

 

If he wasn't completely shot, he was on the road to shot-dom. He still had the skills, but like
everyone who gets old, the brain and the body are not working in tandem as much as when
younger.

I think this compare to Ali defeating Patterson the second time.

 

Those who had been watching him over his career saw his right hand was gone, the timing, the power. He jabbed and timidly hooked Bivins to a ten round decision. For a powerpucher in his prime, he was able to KO three of his final ten opponents.

If he was still so filled of ability in the division... given that he owed the IRS so much, don't you think he might have continued for some more paychecks after Rocky? Or was he just so shot to sh*t that it was an impossibility?

 

I have to disagree. I thought Louis was shot since Conn.

 

Detroit Times headline, September 28, 1950...

"Louis, a shell of old self, 'through' after defeat"

Text...

"He left little more than the memory of a has been champion under a pale and murky moon..."

"He was a shadow and a name and not much more."

 

There is not any fundamental contradiction here.

A great fighter can be severely depleted, and still be better than most of the contenders around.

They do not go from being in their absolute prime, to a win over them being worthless, overnight!

 

Pretty much this. He was a step down from his best but he'd beaten some useful guys decisively.

 

Louis was a different fighter after the war. He'd lost quite a bit. He was a shell of his great self by the time he fought Marciano.

Was he shot? You could say no.

Holmes was declining by the Witherspoon fight and was a shell of what he'd been by the Spinks fights.

You could argue he still wasn't "shot" years later when he beat Mercer.

So both weren't "shot", but they were light years away from what they'd been.

In some ways both may have aged similarly. Both declined heavily but weren't overly hopeless in later years.