Video - Who is the greatest HW since Muhammad Ali?

Ali KO8 Foreman
Spinks UD15 Holmes
Douglas KO10 Tyson
Bowe UD Holyfied
Fury UD W.Klitschko

I think those are the 5 best wins at HW to date.

In order id have them

Ali
Buster
Bowe
Spinks
Fury

 

Lennox Lewis/

 

Lennox Lewis

 

Consider this: Tyson already had nothing to fight for when he challenged Berbick. Yet he was a juggernaut of the ring for 3+ years. Had he had a reason (like Ali, like Holmes)...

 

Would just like to make a quick comment... Compared to most of the crap on YouTube, doesn't anyone else think that this video is pretty great? Please rummy, make some more. 90s heavyweights one was amazing too. And I especially like the ones where you rate within the divisions according to your set criteria (because I love lists). Generally completely disagree haha, but they make great talking points. More, OP, more!!!

 

That BUZZ tells you something! Tyson was amazing!

As reigns go, Wlad is up there, sure.

It's poor analysis though to cite Tyson's "charisma". He was no Mr. Personality. His CHARISMA was blowing away his opposition like so many hapless bums. If Ali's exile is cited to elevate his status of greatness, I posit Tyson's lack of ANYBODY to cherish to elevate what we may have seen had Cus, or Tyson's mother, been around. He was just a dang kid! Yet he still showed peerless talent as a fighter, and even his reign - so flabbergastingly dominant, holds up very well.

 

Hm, to me Holmes, Lewis and Wlad are nearly interchangeable and in general Top10 all-time hws. Those would be naturally my Top3 post-Ali. Afterwards, probably Tyson, Holyfield. Who'd be in the borderline Top10 or Top15 all-time. Then it get's a bit thin I think. Three more that standout are Bowe, Vitali and Byrd - none who I'd call an atg tbh. Foreman, doesn't really fit the "since Ali"-bill. Otherwise there are plenty decent, even good contenders but none really stands out IMO.

 

I think he certainly had a charisma that went beyond his accomplishments in the ring, somewhat like Ali had but in a different way. More like Dempsey, I suppose.

But to say he had more charisma than almost all other champions is not a put down. I agree that his dominant reign stands on its own two feet.

I just don't think it was ever destined to be as long as Wlad's, not matter his lifestyle outside of the ring. He was at his peak against HWs that were around 6'3 cm and 220 lbs (with some smaller and some bigger) but in the 90's he would have been up against guys around 6'5' and 240-250 lbs, plus Holyfield. He probably would have treated most of them like he treated Golota, but Bowe and Lewis would have been big obstacles, I think - and of course Holy.

If he kept his discipline but had a losing record against these men overall, which I don't think is unlikely, a significant part of his mystique would be lost. There would no longer be "a short but true peak" where he was really unbeatable.

That is just speculation, of course, but no more speculation than to say he'd dominate for much longer if not for personal issues.

What we can say for sure is what he did do and didn't do. He was very dominant but not unbeaten in his physical prime. After it, he still had some impressive performances but also came unstuck against Holy, who was past his best as well.

 

Sure. Tyson was "charismatic" because he was so great in the ring. Like Dempsey, yes.

With Tyson, we must play A LOT of "Imagine". But it is worth it, because of the nonpareil greatness he did show. Even with Cus alive and that burning heart pumping, Tyson's demanding style was good for probably another 3 years max beyond Douglas in 1990. That excludes Lennox, who as usual preferred to wait-and-see before committing to a pro world dominated by the Tyson he met as a teen. From '90 to '92, Tyson would have met Holyfield and Bowe. Mind you, he'd be fighting a steroided opponent in Holy, who at that time was rocked by Cooper and didn't have the power to even dent an ancient Larry Holmes. All ideas of Holy "having Tyson's' number" notwithstanding, Holy was not invincible. Bowe proved that during this time. I say Tyson takes this Holyfield and also deals with the lumbering Bowe, whose mark was beating this same Holyfield. Bowe needed a smaller man without major knockout power trading in front of him to look great, and Tyson would not give him that luxury. Ideally, Tyson retires 45-0, considered by many - with Louis and Ali - as the all-time best.

I'll go a step further: Tyson takes on Lennox in '93 and topples him, the old master against a still-tentative, pre-Steward, large sprawling specimen who nearly lost to Frank Bruno. Then Tyson, 46-0, champion for 7 years, is generally regarded as the greatest of all time.

Back in the real world, I still personally regard Tyson among my top 5 all-time heavies. I see that he accomplished so much without that burning reason. I understand how much the heart and mind mean to a great fighter. Even so, the way Tyson got inside and assailed his foes with lightning, unseen, demolishing combinations - provided those foes wanted to fight - is something I had the privilege of seeing in real time. And, all these later, PED-enhanced (to me Tyson progeny, wishing to imitate their youth-time idol) "champions" notwithstanding, I've never seen anything like Iron Mike on the final rampage, en route to the knockout, and neither has this old world.

 

Back in the real world Tyson didn't achieve enough to be top 5. And I don't think he ever would.