Classic Forum's Reaction to Mayweather's Retirement and ATG Status

ever consider floyd mayweather is considerable better than miguel cotto?

If he can nearly beat floyd mayweather, he can def beat miguel cotto. btw, i dont know if you followed oscars career. but NO ONE EVER massacres oscar. no one, all of the great fighters that he fought that were around his same size, they were all competitive close fights. even in the ones he lost, no one dominated him or beat him easily. certainly cotto would not do it. if he does beat oscar, no way he beats him easily, no one ever beats oscar easily. and oscar has fought the best of the best for the past decade.


No way oscar is more faded than mosely. oscar just lost a 1-2 point fight to the p4p best fighter in the world, a fighter who would shutout miguel cotto. shane is finished.

He showed how much he struggles with a badly diminshed old former great. Cotto struggled with a experienced old former great like mosely, but oscar is better than shane and has more left than shane. Cotto doesnt match up well with oscar and his combination punchers with good jabs. Cottos whole style is built on seek and destroy, he will not be able to blast away oscar, nor will he be able to wear him down. oscar will smothy calculate his plan and jab cotto in the early rounds as he feels cotto out and allows cotto to exploit his weakness. as cotto opens up and lets his hands go, cotto's aggresive rushes will be trampled by oscars fluid combinations and accurate pinpoint shots. Cottos youthness and will allow him to outwork an old tired oscar down the stretch but it wont be enough.

 

I'd rate Mayweather higher simply for the fact that he has a much better resume. For all the crap I might give him for not fighting this or that guy, Mayweather was much more accomplished than Ricardo Lopez was. Lopez doesn't even make my top 100 actually (he's just outside it though).

In terms of skills and ability and head-to-head potential, I'd say they are very even, though obviously they have very different styles. Both are beatable imo by the right kind of style, but they would be competitive with anyone.

Oh, and it's about 12:00 pm here in Melbourne, Australia, so I'll be up for the fight for sure.

 

Marciano was 6-0(5 kos) against hall of famers. did Ricardo Lopez accomplish anywhere near that stat?

 

I think it's fair to say accomplishments are probably my key criterion, but that's not to say that I take other things like consistency, dominance, head to head ability, skillset lightly.

For the record, I rate Marciano probably just inside my top 50, but he, along with the whole heavyweight division, is a division I find it very hard to place historically. If someone turns around and says gets stuffed, Rocky should be ranked 90th all time, well, I wouldn't exactly turn around and say that's insane. I do think he gets the short end of the stick a little bit though. He may get beaten by some of the bigger heavyweights that came after him, but p4p, I think he was a legitimately great fighter. Better than Foreman, better than Holmes, better than Frazier, better than Lewis.

It is rather surprising, if I do say so myself

 

He is extremely skilled, I cannot deny it. His mechanics are spot on.

He is the best straweight there's ever been, but that's not exactly saying much. Who do I think beats him? Well quite a few people if we're talking p4p, but I'll just mention some flyweights who I think would get the better of him, even considering Lopez was their size (i.e p4p).

Fighting Harada, Miguel Canto, Pascual Perez, Jung Koo Chang and possibly 'too sharp' Johnson.

Having said that, like Mayweather, I think Ricardo's a fighter who would never be disgraced no matter who he fought (around his weight).

Well to put it in some context, p4p I have Rock #46, Holmes #47

Trying to keep an eye on the ESB chat for the fight descriptions, but I should get a downloaded copy of the main event some time later tonight (my time). :good

 

A brave call indeed. De La Hoya and a couple of others have fought the best opposition in the last 30 years. I'm not saying he's beat the best, but he's certainly fought the best.

Not too sure he's running scared of Cotto. I'll give Cotto credit as he's showed a better chin at welterweight. Struggling to make 140lbs seemed to weaken his punch resistance. But against Judah and Mosley his chin was as good as concrete. Cotto has really matured since moving up in weight. IMO he's at the peak of his powers. Defensively he wasn't ever bad, but he's really came on leaps and bounds in that department. His punch picking recently has been a joy to watch.

De La Hoya has a punchers chance against Cotto. The left hook for obvious reasons. The right hand, forget it. De La Hoya has threw the right hand with more regularity under Mayweather snr, but it has not been improved. If you watch De La Hoya throw a right, he brings it back to soon. Doesn't let it vibrate. That was something Steward tried to sort out over 10 years ago. And when De La Hoya throws combinations his right hand is never a telling punch, it's used for rhythm to land the left. I noticed against Forbes that he's became wider and more erractic when throwing punches in 3's and 4's. Not as tidy technically as he was in his prime.

I would not write De La Hoya off totally against Cotto. He can certainly match him on the outside with the jab. But down the stretch would probably be where he gets into deep water and feels the heat. Cotto ain't one dimensional. And history has shown us that De La Hoya looks at his best when he has an aggressive opponent coming forward in front of him. Cotto's too intelligent to walk in throwing bombs. I like De La Hoya to be competitive with Cotto. Not enough to beat him though, not unless the left hook works a treat and Cotto can't slip his jab.

 

Mayweather is a whole league above Oscar, it isn't even close

 

A lot of "Oscar vs Cotto" in this thread.

Reminds me a lot of the talk before the first Ali vs Frazier fight.

"Old fighter" vs the "Young, upcoming fighter".

And that one turned out to be a classic.

I want to see what Oscar could do with Cotto now.

 

I have a hard time rating him top 50 now honestly. given his desire to take the easy route and play it safe. He had great skills, maybe even a great career on paper, but he just didnt seem to be a great fighter to me based on his heart and willingness to take on the best, though that's probably unfair.

 

Yep. Floyds in triple AAA, oscar is in the majors. Floud could never be rated above a prime oscar de la hoya. Oscar in his prime was better, and he beat better opposition than floyd did.