Will anybody ever beat Canelo on the scorecards again

N17 · Jan 4, 2018

shadow111 said: ↑

I'm highly offended by your comments N17. Such harsh words used to describe fans who aren't heavily biased against Canelo and/or head-over-heels for Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin. If you have to use words like "shameful" and "brown nosing little turds" then one really have to question your view of these bouts.

"GBP choosing the judges" / "literally just have to stay on your feet to win" these comments are pure comedy. How delusional do you have to be to actually believe that. I mean, obviously you're exaggerating for effect, due to some weird anti-Canelo mindset you've adopted.

It's really odd to hear these types of statements when any reasonable fan can see that Canelo held his own against Mayweather, probably didn't win the fight or even get a draw, but certainly was in the fight and in pretty much every round. I'm not even sure if the draw was OK or not, like I find that fight incredibly hard to score, so don't even put me in that categeory of thinking the draw was OK. One thing I've tried to do is to discuss the rounds and debate the rounds, but yet every time I've tried to do this with those who think Mayweather won every round or almost every round refuses to discuss the rounds.

Look, after watching the fight, I didn't think Canelo was gonna win the fight. He didn't really win too many rounds convincingly enough to beat Mayweather. But in no way was it a dominant Mayweather win or anything close to that. Mayweather was in a serious back and forth fight that night. Mayweather was taken to his absoutely limit vs Canelo. So much so that he refused to rematch Canelo, refused to even fight the guy at 154. Mayweather obviously was very worried about what Canelo was able to do to him.

And in the Golovkin, I mean Canelo put on a boxing clinic man. He completely outboxed Gennady Golovkin. He started strong, he won most of the rounds. Rounds 4-9 were pretty close, you could give some of those to Golovkin, but to give all those go Golovkin is a little ridiculous. 118-110 is a little much for either fighter. Teddy Atlas scoring it 118-110 to Golovkin is way worse than 118-110 to Canelo because Canelo was landing the better harder punches, did more body work, had better defense, made the opponent miss more, was showcasing a more well rounded skillset and punch variety, etc.

But it wasn't a 118-110 kind of a fight. This was a very competitive fight that can be seen in a variety of ways depending on who you were rooting for, what you thought each guy had to do, etc. We're all in agreement that 118-110 was too wide, no one is really arguing that Canelo won that many rounds. Rounds 1-4 were Canelo rounds for me, Rounds 10-12 were Canelo rounds. Rounds 4 and 5 could go either way. Rounds 6-9 Golovkin outworked him but Canelo landed the best single punches. That's what happened in the fight. Accept reality. Byrd gave Canelo all those rounds because Golovkin was just throwing more punches, he didn't land that many significant earth shattering punches. But you do have to reward somebody for throwing and landing more punches, so in that respect I think you gotta give Golovkin at least 3 or 4 rounds just based on activity in the middle rounds and Canelo slowing down a bit. So it's a 8-4, 7-5 Canelo type of a fight, maybe 6-6 if you're really generous to Golovkin. And, if you're just sitting there counting punches and giving rounds to the guy throwing more punches, you'll have Golovkin winning. Somebody like me understands the sweet science involved. It's not just rock em sock em robots. Canelo got the better of Gennady Golovkin. Golovkin didn't do what his fans said he was gonna do to Canelo. He didn't hurt Canelo, he didn't rock Canelo, he didn't do anything to bother Canelo. Canelo didn't fight a perfect fight, he probably gave away some of the middle rounds. But he definitely proved a lot against Golovkin and if you can't appreciate that, that's you're issue man. You're not fooling anybody with your namecalling and all this jazz about the Mayweather and Golovkin fights. This must be your way of trying to convince yourself of something that's way off.

You know what you saw in those fights. We all saw what happened. We all now how good Canelo is, there's no point in trying to deny it. No one on here is arguing that Gennady lost 118-110, because we're trying to be fair to Golovkin. For throwing more punches, for coming forward, for landing *some* good punches, etc. I'm not coming on here claiming the draw vs Mayweather was OK. I really thought Mayweather won that fight, but at the same time those were hard to score rounds, and when you have that many hard to score rounds, a draw isn't inconceivable when you look at how close the rounds were. I mean, Elvir Muriqi got a draw on the scorecards vs Antonio Tarver, did you really think Muriqi won that fight? Probably not, but he got in some hard body shots and kept a good amount of those rounds close. You end up with draws sometimes. The obsession over the Mayweather draw is off the charts, the obsession of the Byrd card vs Golovkin, is somewhat justifiable given how close the fight was, but still taken to the extreme with comments like GBP choosing the judges or literally just have to stay on your feet to win. Saying stuff like that literally dumbs down the consensus view of a boxing match. Canelo did a hell of a lot more than juset staying on his feet to win. Alvarez landed major punches that sent shivers down Golovkin's spine, he did stuff to Golovkin that nobody else has been able to do. That's why he won so many rounds. Failure to understand or accept this only makes you look like a casual-highly-influenced-by-noise boxing fan. If you want to talk boxing, lets talk boxing. Be real about it though.
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If what I said offended you then you've lead a very sheltered life, maybe get out more, go to a club, pub or better still the boxing or football and come back and tell me I was offensive.

With respect I'm not wasting my time reading your ridiculous dribblings because I've read your thoughts before on Golovkin Vs Canelo and they were just wrong, bias, blinkered and to be blunt.. a load of cobblers.

I go on and on sometimes, I probably bore people or just sound a moron but you struggle to get to the point time after time, I urge you to try and shorten your comments and stick to a thread of conversation because it's a struggle to get through them.

N17 · Jan 4, 2018

iii said: ↑

You're correct when you say we all saw what happened in the fight & as for being real about it there was a poll on here where I believe it was something like 90 percent for a GGG win...I can understand you probably dismissing that but no one was forced to cast a vote. You just cannot accept that it appears that yellows fights are judged in a biased slant towards him, definitely in the iron man GGG fight , just deal with it!
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It's was over 90% Golovkin won with the press I believe, it was one of the most controversial scores of 2017.

There was a thread with the press scores and other notable people scoring and it was Golovkin by a long long way, it turned in to a comedy thread it was so one sided.

Many superb judges, boxing experts, fighters, ex fighters believe Golovkin won.

All I remember on the other side was Oscar, Canelo, Hopkins and Canelo's Mother saying he won.

iii · Jan 4, 2018

Sugar 88 said: ↑

As a body of work though I think you'd have to be biased to give it to Canelo. Golovkin clearly won the fight - not as handily as I expected him to but he was definitely the winner and FWIW I'd laugh my ass off if Canelo legit schooled GGG in the rematch. The forum would be ablaze.
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I have to agree with ALL of what you've said, also the last part.
How often did GGG generaly fight a year 3 - 4 times , if he has no fight until faces canelo in May then you may well be "...laugh my ass off" . I think the regularity at which GGG fights in the past has been a very big factor in his success.

Farmboxer · Jan 4, 2018

Even Nacho Beristain had Golovkin winning the fight!!! Oscar's plan is to keep Golovkin inactive so as to get ring rust, Oscar knows that Golovkin likes to fight at least 3 or 4 times per year. The judges will be Byrd, Byrd and Byrd, Toney Weeks will be the referee so when El Pollo lands a testicle blow he can jump in and stop the fight! El Pollo's plan is to land low blows like SOB Ward did, watch and see, Hopkins has already let the cat out of the bag!

shadow111 · Jan 4, 2018

yesihavearm2 said: ↑

No interest in seeing Canelo fight ever again really.

No other top fighter has been given such favourable scorecards in recent times.

The guy flat out lost wide score margins to GGG, PBF and Lara. Most people think Trout beat him too but I thought that was a draw. Also that ridiculous Cotto scorecard. What the fk.
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Canelo schooled Cotto. He beat Cotto more decisively than Floyd beat Cotto.

shadow111 · Jan 4, 2018

anthoto1 said: ↑

Canelo was completely schooled and outclassed by Floyd, from pillar to post. Cards that give him more that one or two rounds out of pity are absolutely ridiculous.

By the way, there is a very solid case Canelo lost not only against Floyd and GGG, but also against Lara and Trout.
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If Canelo was schooled against Floyd, then why was Floyd so nervous throughout the fight? Why did Canelo successfully feint Floyd 30 semething times in the fight getting Floyd to feint, 20 something of those in the first several rounds? If it was such a schooling by Floyd, then why was he constantly reacting and flinching to Canelo feints, getting hit with jabs and well timed punches, why was Canelo going tit for tat with Floyd in the majority of rounds? What you're saying just doesn't jive with what actually happened.

shadow111 · Jan 4, 2018

N17 said: ↑

It's was over 90% Golovkin won with the press I believe, it was one of the most controversial scores of 2017.

There was a thread with the press scores and other notable people scoring and it was Golovkin by a long long way, it turned in to a comedy thread it was so one sided.

Many superb judges, boxing experts, fighters, ex fighters believe Golovkin won.

All I remember on the other side was Oscar, Canelo, Hopkins and Canelo's Mother saying he won.
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Deontay Wilder had Canelo winning, Chavez Sr had Canelo winning, Sergio Mora had Canelo winning. Most people had it close, a draw or a narrow Golovkin win, hardly a clear unanimous Golovkin win.

shadow111 · Jan 4, 2018

N17 said: ↑

If what I said offended you then you've lead a very sheltered life, maybe get out more, go to a club, pub or better still the boxing or football and come back and tell me I was offensive.

With respect I'm not wasting my time reading your ridiculous dribblings because I've read your thoughts before on Golovkin Vs Canelo and they were just wrong, bias, blinkered and to be blunt.. a load of cobblers.

I go on and on sometimes, I probably bore people or just sound a moron but you struggle to get to the point time after time, I urge you to try and shorten your comments and stick to a thread of conversation because it's a struggle to get through them.
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I'm not really offended, it's just telling to hear you resort to namecalling for anyone that didn't think Mayweather won every round or thought Golovkin beat Canelo. I mean, if your argument was so strong, why would you need to resort to such namecalling to anyone who doesn't see it your way? Surely in a civilized society we can discuss the scoring and judging of boxing matches freely openly and fairly and in doing so can understand where each other are coming from. But, from your perspective, that can't happen, it's your way or the highway apparently.

Farmboxer · Jan 4, 2018

Nacho Beristain had Golovkin beating El Pollo, the vast majority had Golovkin winning the fight, Golovkin gained a lot of popularity with the Mexican fight fans after that fight, even Tecate beer!!! It was a simple fight to score............Harold Lederman had it 8 rounds to 4, Paulie had it 9 rounds to 3, I had it 8 rounds to 4, could see it as 9 rounds to 3...................

yesihavearm2 · Jan 5, 2018

IsaL said: ↑

Ah, you're a hater, your irrational and contradicting posts are now making sense. Do me a favor, don't try to argue about Canelo with me since you have a clear an bias agenda, can't be bothered with a hater.
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There's nothing irrational about the obvious fact that Canelo has had more favoured scorecards of any top fighters in recent times.

My agenda here isn't bias because I neither care for nor dislike Canelo, pretty much the same way I feel for GGG. I am not fans of either.

I call a spade a spade, and Canelo has lost all of his big fights.

Lazar · Jan 5, 2018

shadow111 said: ↑

I'm highly offended by your comments N17. Such harsh words used to describe fans who aren't heavily biased against Canelo and/or head-over-heels for Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin. If you have to use words like "shameful" and "brown nosing little turds" then one really have to question your view of these bouts.

"GBP choosing the judges" / "literally just have to stay on your feet to win" these comments are pure comedy. How delusional do you have to be to actually believe that. I mean, obviously you're exaggerating for effect, due to some weird anti-Canelo mindset you've adopted.

It's really odd to hear these types of statements when any reasonable fan can see that Canelo held his own against Mayweather, probably didn't win the fight or even get a draw, but certainly was in the fight and in pretty much every round. I'm not even sure if the draw was OK or not, like I find that fight incredibly hard to score, so don't even put me in that categeory of thinking the draw was OK. One thing I've tried to do is to discuss the rounds and debate the rounds, but yet every time I've tried to do this with those who think Mayweather won every round or almost every round refuses to discuss the rounds.

Look, after watching the fight, I didn't think Canelo was gonna win the fight. He didn't really win too many rounds convincingly enough to beat Mayweather. But in no way was it a dominant Mayweather win or anything close to that. Mayweather was in a serious back and forth fight that night. Mayweather was taken to his absoutely limit vs Canelo. So much so that he refused to rematch Canelo, refused to even fight the guy at 154. Mayweather obviously was very worried about what Canelo was able to do to him.

And in the Golovkin, I mean Canelo put on a boxing clinic man. He completely outboxed Gennady Golovkin. He started strong, he won most of the rounds. Rounds 4-9 were pretty close, you could give some of those to Golovkin, but to give all those go Golovkin is a little ridiculous. 118-110 is a little much for either fighter. Teddy Atlas scoring it 118-110 to Golovkin is way worse than 118-110 to Canelo because Canelo was landing the better harder punches, did more body work, had better defense, made the opponent miss more, was showcasing a more well rounded skillset and punch variety, etc.

But it wasn't a 118-110 kind of a fight. This was a very competitive fight that can be seen in a variety of ways depending on who you were rooting for, what you thought each guy had to do, etc. We're all in agreement that 118-110 was too wide, no one is really arguing that Canelo won that many rounds. Rounds 1-4 were Canelo rounds for me, Rounds 10-12 were Canelo rounds. Rounds 4 and 5 could go either way. Rounds 6-9 Golovkin outworked him but Canelo landed the best single punches. That's what happened in the fight. Accept reality. Byrd gave Canelo all those rounds because Golovkin was just throwing more punches, he didn't land that many significant earth shattering punches. But you do have to reward somebody for throwing and landing more punches, so in that respect I think you gotta give Golovkin at least 3 or 4 rounds just based on activity in the middle rounds and Canelo slowing down a bit. So it's a 8-4, 7-5 Canelo type of a fight, maybe 6-6 if you're really generous to Golovkin. And, if you're just sitting there counting punches and giving rounds to the guy throwing more punches, you'll have Golovkin winning. Somebody like me understands the sweet science involved. It's not just rock em sock em robots. Canelo got the better of Gennady Golovkin. Golovkin didn't do what his fans said he was gonna do to Canelo. He didn't hurt Canelo, he didn't rock Canelo, he didn't do anything to bother Canelo. Canelo didn't fight a perfect fight, he probably gave away some of the middle rounds. But he definitely proved a lot against Golovkin and if you can't appreciate that, that's you're issue man. You're not fooling anybody with your namecalling and all this jazz about the Mayweather and Golovkin fights. This must be your way of trying to convince yourself of something that's way off.

You know what you saw in those fights. We all saw what happened. We all now how good Canelo is, there's no point in trying to deny it. No one on here is arguing that Gennady lost 118-110, because we're trying to be fair to Golovkin. For throwing more punches, for coming forward, for landing *some* good punches, etc. I'm not coming on here claiming the draw vs Mayweather was OK. I really thought Mayweather won that fight, but at the same time those were hard to score rounds, and when you have that many hard to score rounds, a draw isn't inconceivable when you look at how close the rounds were. I mean, Elvir Muriqi got a draw on the scorecards vs Antonio Tarver, did you really think Muriqi won that fight? Probably not, but he got in some hard body shots and kept a good amount of those rounds close. You end up with draws sometimes. The obsession over the Mayweather draw is off the charts, the obsession of the Byrd card vs Golovkin, is somewhat justifiable given how close the fight was, but still taken to the extreme with comments like GBP choosing the judges or literally just have to stay on your feet to win. Saying stuff like that literally dumbs down the consensus view of a boxing match. Canelo did a hell of a lot more than juset staying on his feet to win. Alvarez landed major punches that sent shivers down Golovkin's spine, he did stuff to Golovkin that nobody else has been able to do. That's why he won so many rounds. Failure to understand or accept this only makes you look like a casual-highly-influenced-by-noise boxing fan. If you want to talk boxing, lets talk boxing. Be real about it though.
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118-110

yesihavearm2 · Jan 5, 2018

shadow111 said: ↑

Deontay Wilder had Canelo winning, Chavez Sr had Canelo winning, Sergio Mora had Canelo winning. Most people had it close, a draw or a narrow Golovkin win, hardly a clear unanimous Golovkin win.
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Wrong. You just can't be trusted when it comes to posting about Canelo.

OFFICIAL CARDS
Dave Moretti --------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Don Trella -----------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Adelaide Byrd -------------------------------> 118-110 Canelo

****************************************************

Teddy Atlas --------------------------------> 118-110 GGG
Unnamed boxing site #1 ------------------> 118-110 GGG
Jeff Powell (UK Daily Mail) ----------------> 118-111 GGG
Kelly Pavlik ---------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
Dave Allen ----------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
Mookie Alexander (Bloody Elbow) --------> 117-111 GGG
Brian Campbell (CBS) ---------------------> 117-111 GGG
Jack Rathborn (Mirror UK) ----------------> 117-111 GGG
Harold Lederman (HBO) ------------------> 116-112 GGG
Devon Alexander --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Dan Rafael (ESPN) ------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Al Bernstein -------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bryan Graham (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-112 GGG
Gareth Davies (UK Telegraph) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Steve Bunce (BoxNation) ----------------> 116-112 GGG
Tom Loeffler ------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Sergio Martinez ---------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Amir Khan ---------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Matthew Macklin --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Steve Lillis (BoxNation) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bob Velin (USA Today) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Lyle Fitzsimmons (CBS) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin McRae (Bleacher Report) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Shaun Al-Shatti (MMA Fighting) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Ryan Frederick (Wrestling Observer) ----> 116-112 GGG
Patrick Stumberg (MMA Mania) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Michael Woods (Ring) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Nigel Collins (ESPN) ----------------------> 116-112 GGG
Cliff Rold ----------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bad Left Hook Writer #2 -----------------> 116-112 GGG
John A. MacDonald (Boxing Monthly) ---> 116-112 GGG
Ron Lewis (The Times) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Daniel Cormier (UFC) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Dardan Zenunaj --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin Mitchell (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-113 GGG
Josh Taylor --------------------------------> 116-113 GGG
Joshua Bautsi -----------------------------> 116-113 GGG
Matt Christie (Boxing News) -------------> 116-113 GGG
Barry Jones (BoxNation) -----------------> 116-113 GGG
Adam Booth -------------------------------> 116-114 GGG
Jordan Breen (Sherdog) ------------------> 115-112 GGG
Caleb Truax -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Kevin Iole (Yahoo) ------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Gary Locket -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Will Esco (Bad Left Hook) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Phil Murphy (ESPN) -----------------------> 115-113 GGG
Mike Harris (SI) ---------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Paul Fontaine (Wrestling Observer) ------> 115-113 GGG
MMA Brazil ---------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Sean Sheehan (Severe MMA) -------------> 115-113 GGG
Rob Tatum (Combat Press) ----------------> 115-113 GGG
Patrick Wyman (Bleacher Report) ---------> 115-113 GGG
Chavez Jr -----------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Juan Manuel Marquez ----------------------> 115-113 GGG
Joel Diaz ------------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Marc Livitz (SecondsOut) ------------------> 115-113 GGG
Stephen A. Smith (ESPN) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly) -------> 115-113 GGG
Ed Robinson (Sky Sports) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Unnamed boxing site #2 ------------------> 115-113 GGG
Tom Gray (Ring) ---------------------------> 115-114 GGG
Max Kellerman -----------------------------> Golovkin
Lennox Lewis ------------------------------> Golovkin
Shane Mosley ------------------------------> Golovkin
Austin Trout --------------------------------> Golovkin
Paulie Malignaggi --------------------------> Golovkin
Enzo Macarenelli ---------------------------> Golovkin
Scott Cardle --------------------------------> Golvokin
Terence Crawford ---------------------------> Golovkin
Reece Bellotti ------------------------------> Golvokin
Liam Smith ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Peter Quillin --------------------------------> Golovkin
Liam Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
Ohara Davies -------------------------------> Golovkin
Luke Campbell -----------------------------> Golovkin
Dave Coldwell ------------------------------> Golovkin
Badou Jack ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Kevin Kelly (boxer) -------------------------> Golovkin
Steve Kim -----------------------------------> Golovkin
Doug Fischer --------------------------------> Golovkin
Ring TV guy (name?) ----------------------> Golvokin
Cornelius Bundrage ------------------------> Golovkin
Gabriel Rosado ------------------------------> Golovkin
Kal Yafai -------------------------------------> Golovkin
Julian Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
Vanes Martirosyan --------------------------> Golovkin
Michael Montero ----------------------------> Golovkin
James Brady (SB Nation) ------------------> Golovkin
Joe Rogan (UFC) ----------------------------> Golovkin
Jim Rome (sports broadcaster) ------------> Golovkin
Kovalev -------------------------------------> Golvokin
Danny Jacobs -------------------------------> Golovkin
Murat Gassiev ------------------------------> Golovkin
Johnny Nelson ------------------------------> Golovkin
Rosie Perez ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Lou DiBella ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Tony Jeffries --------------------------------> Golovkin
Martin Samuel (UK Daily Mail) -------------> Golovkin
Joseph Parker ------------------------------> Golovkin
Bob Arum ----------------------------------> Golovkin
Fernando Schwarz (Fox Sports Mexico) --> Golovkin
Sportsbook 1 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 2 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 3 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 4 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 5 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 6 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 7 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub) --------------> Golovkin
Ana Julaton --------------------------------> Golovkin
John Buccigross (ESPN) -------------------> Golovkin
Nonito Donaire -----------------------------> Golovkin
Leo Santa Cruz ----------------------------> Golovkin
Fernando Vargas ---------------------------> Golovkin
Michael Bisping (UFC) ---------------------> Golovkin
Narhan Gorman ---------------------------> Golovkin
Lance Pugmire (LA Times) ----------------> 114-114 Draw
Chris Mannix (Yahoo) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
Associated Press --------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Kenny Porter ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Roy Jones ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Peter Fury ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Tommy Hearns ----------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Joe Cortez ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Liam Happe (Yahoo Sport UK) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News) ---> 114-114 Draw
Gilbert Manzano (Denver Post) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Ben Thompson (Fight Hype) -------------> 114-114 Draw
Brian Kenny (MLB Network) -------------> 114-114 Draw
Eric Rasken (HBO) -----------------------> 114-114 Draw
Danny Flexen (British Boxers) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Kieran Mulvaney (HBO) ------------------> 114-114 Draw
David Greisman (former writer) ---------> 114-114 Draw
George Foreman --------------------------> 114-114 Draw (supposedly said)
Unnamed writer (Unnamed site #3) -----> 114-114 Draw
Robert Garcia ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Glen McCrory ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Danny Howard (Boxing Tribune) ---------> 115-114 Canelo
Bernardo Osuna (ESPN Deportes) --------> 115-114 Canelo
De La Hoya --------------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Bernard Hopkins --------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Gilbert Mendoza (President of WBA) -----> 115-113 Canelo
Coach Anthony ----------------------------> 116-112 Canelo
Erik Morales -------------------------------> 117-111 Canelo (think he said; see video page 3)
Chavez Sr ---------------------------------> Canelo
Sergio Mora -------------------------------> Canelo

116 = GGG won
021 = Draw
009 = Canelo won [includes 2 Golden Boy promoters]

116/146 = 79% had GGG winning the fight.
021/146 = 15% had a draw.
009/146 = 06% had Canelo winning the fight.

ATG22 · Jan 5, 2018

shadow111 said: ↑

Why would I accept such a theory when I've watched the fights myself and have come nowhere near such a conclusion? You're asking me to accept the viewpoint of those who refuse to accept judges scorecards yet are unable to discuss why or debate the details when pressed about it.

Lets see if you're up for the challenge : How did you score Canelo Golovkin and which rounds did you give to Golovkin? I'll give you my scorecard :

I had Canelo winning Rounds 1-4 and Rounds 10-12. The middle rounds Golovkin got some momentum and arguably won rounds 5-9, though 5 was pretty much a toss up (as was round 4) and in 6 8 and 9 Canelo landed some bombs. Even if you give all those rounds that Canelo landed bombs on Golovkin to Golovkin I still have Canelo winning 7-5.
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Oscar, is that you? Didn’t know boxing HoF’ers come on these boards to defend their boy.

It sounds like you only give GGG round 7. So 119-109 Canelo conceivable to you?

YDKSAB.

Find a new hobby, boxing isn’t for you.

You’re really putting out some classic troll drivel in this thread.

shadow111 · Jan 5, 2018

yesihavearm2 said: ↑

Wrong. You just can't be trusted when it comes to posting about Canelo.
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That's rich. I can't be trusted? What did I say that was incorrect? Out of that long list, about half of those who had G winning didn't include a score, and of those who had G winning and provided a score, only a tiny percentage had it wider than 8 rounds to 4 for G. So the most common scores were 8-4 Triple G, 7-5 Triple G, or a draw. The average being in the 7-5 ball park which is a single swing round away from being a draw. That list doesn't even include Jeff Mayweather, Floyd Mayweather Sr, or Deontay Wilder who had Canelo winning.

It's a fallacy to suggest that 90% had the fight one-sided. Sure, the vast majority in the media had Golovkin winning, there are reasons why that happened, one of which is that many in the media suffer from pack mentality, and tend to agree with one another, so not to have an unpopular opinion. Another factor is the Byrd card which caused many people to say Golovkin won simply to protest the wideness of that card. Another factor is the seed planted in their mind from the CJ Ross card, the fact that Khan wasn't winning on all 3 scorecards when he was KTFO, the fact that many thought Canelo didn't beat Trout or Lara. So going into the bout those past decisions creates an inherent bias in favor of Golovkin. Then you have the fact that Golovkin was the come-forward fighter who threw more punches so casuals are more inclined to score close rounds to such a fighter. That's just for starters.

BCS8 · Jan 5, 2018

shadow111 said: ↑

I'm highly offended by your comments N17. Such harsh words used to describe fans who aren't heavily biased against Canelo and/or head-over-heels for Mayweather and Gennady Golovkin. If you have to use words like "shameful" and "brown nosing little turds" then one really have to question your view of these bouts.

"GBP choosing the judges" / "literally just have to stay on your feet to win" these comments are pure comedy. How delusional do you have to be to actually believe that. I mean, obviously you're exaggerating for effect, due to some weird anti-Canelo mindset you've adopted.

It's really odd to hear these types of statements when any reasonable fan can see that Canelo held his own against Mayweather, probably didn't win the fight or even get a draw, but certainly was in the fight and in pretty much every round. I'm not even sure if the draw was OK or not, like I find that fight incredibly hard to score, so don't even put me in that categeory of thinking the draw was OK. One thing I've tried to do is to discuss the rounds and debate the rounds, but yet every time I've tried to do this with those who think Mayweather won every round or almost every round refuses to discuss the rounds.

Look, after watching the fight, I didn't think Canelo was gonna win the fight. He didn't really win too many rounds convincingly enough to beat Mayweather. But in no way was it a dominant Mayweather win or anything close to that. Mayweather was in a serious back and forth fight that night. Mayweather was taken to his absoutely limit vs Canelo. So much so that he refused to rematch Canelo, refused to even fight the guy at 154. Mayweather obviously was very worried about what Canelo was able to do to him.

And in the Golovkin, I mean Canelo put on a boxing clinic man. He completely outboxed Gennady Golovkin. He started strong, he won most of the rounds. Rounds 4-9 were pretty close, you could give some of those to Golovkin, but to give all those go Golovkin is a little ridiculous. 118-110 is a little much for either fighter. Teddy Atlas scoring it 118-110 to Golovkin is way worse than 118-110 to Canelo because Canelo was landing the better harder punches, did more body work, had better defense, made the opponent miss more, was showcasing a more well rounded skillset and punch variety, etc.

But it wasn't a 118-110 kind of a fight. This was a very competitive fight that can be seen in a variety of ways depending on who you were rooting for, what you thought each guy had to do, etc. We're all in agreement that 118-110 was too wide, no one is really arguing that Canelo won that many rounds. Rounds 1-4 were Canelo rounds for me, Rounds 10-12 were Canelo rounds. Rounds 4 and 5 could go either way. Rounds 6-9 Golovkin outworked him but Canelo landed the best single punches. That's what happened in the fight. Accept reality. Byrd gave Canelo all those rounds because Golovkin was just throwing more punches, he didn't land that many significant earth shattering punches. But you do have to reward somebody for throwing and landing more punches, so in that respect I think you gotta give Golovkin at least 3 or 4 rounds just based on activity in the middle rounds and Canelo slowing down a bit. So it's a 8-4, 7-5 Canelo type of a fight, maybe 6-6 if you're really generous to Golovkin. And, if you're just sitting there counting punches and giving rounds to the guy throwing more punches, you'll have Golovkin winning. Somebody like me understands the sweet science involved. It's not just rock em sock em robots. Canelo got the better of Gennady Golovkin. Golovkin didn't do what his fans said he was gonna do to Canelo. He didn't hurt Canelo, he didn't rock Canelo, he didn't do anything to bother Canelo. Canelo didn't fight a perfect fight, he probably gave away some of the middle rounds. But he definitely proved a lot against Golovkin and if you can't appreciate that, that's you're issue man. You're not fooling anybody with your namecalling and all this jazz about the Mayweather and Golovkin fights. This must be your way of trying to convince yourself of something that's way off.

You know what you saw in those fights. We all saw what happened. We all now how good Canelo is, there's no point in trying to deny it. No one on here is arguing that Gennady lost 118-110, because we're trying to be fair to Golovkin. For throwing more punches, for coming forward, for landing *some* good punches, etc. I'm not coming on here claiming the draw vs Mayweather was OK. I really thought Mayweather won that fight, but at the same time those were hard to score rounds, and when you have that many hard to score rounds, a draw isn't inconceivable when you look at how close the rounds were. I mean, Elvir Muriqi got a draw on the scorecards vs Antonio Tarver, did you really think Muriqi won that fight? Probably not, but he got in some hard body shots and kept a good amount of those rounds close. You end up with draws sometimes. The obsession over the Mayweather draw is off the charts, the obsession of the Byrd card vs Golovkin, is somewhat justifiable given how close the fight was, but still taken to the extreme with comments like GBP choosing the judges or literally just have to stay on your feet to win. Saying stuff like that literally dumbs down the consensus view of a boxing match. Canelo did a hell of a lot more than juset staying on his feet to win. Alvarez landed major punches that sent shivers down Golovkin's spine, he did stuff to Golovkin that nobody else has been able to do. That's why he won so many rounds. Failure to understand or accept this only makes you look like a casual-highly-influenced-by-noise boxing fan. If you want to talk boxing, lets talk boxing. Be real about it though.
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Will anybody ever beat Canelo on the scorecards again

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Will anybody ever beat Canelo on the scorecards again

N17 Loyal Member Full Member

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shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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yesihavearm2 ESB Chinchecker Full Member

Lazar Boxing Addict Full Member

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