Does anybody else think that Jermain Taylor was actually a pretty good fighter?

Yes he was a very good fighter, beat Hopkins 3 years before Calzaghe did.

 

@tinman In fact it's interesting to ponder who beat the better version of Hopkins: Taylor or Jones?

 

VERY good fighter who had a knack for imploding at the worst time possible.

DOn't forget how big that generation of MW's was either. Taylor, Pavlik, BHop, Martinez

 

Just the opposite actually - he was an HBO hyped mediocrity who really clearly beat no one of note, getting a very questionable draw against Wright, and bogus decisions over Hopkins in fights that many thought he actually lost.

And of course, his shaky chin later got exposed against Pavlik, Froch and Abraham.

So no. Taylor to me is a mediocre fighter who benefited from his connections to HBO to get decisions he didn't deserve and hype he didn't warrant.

But justice was served, as his glass jaw was eventually brutally exposed. Too bad Hopkins and Wright were ripped off in the process of building up this hypejob.

 

I wouldn't say that Taylor was mediocre. He definitely had talent, and very underrated power, but he also suffered from the fact that he was rather aggressively promoted en route to his title, and was seen as something of a paper champ to real deal Pavlik, especially after Pavlik's brutal demolition of Edison Miranda. The fight ended up being a lot more competitive than many fans anticipated, showing that Taylor was no joke, but after the bubble burst he no longer had the sort of success he enjoyed previously and declined quite quickly.

He had obvious limitations as a fighter, but a lot of good qualities as well, and could crack as well as anyone in the division.

 

I hated the Hopkins loss, Taylor didn’t look that good, it was the youth and fresher legs that made the difference, skill level was not pretty to watch it all. Then the second time around was the same shitshow

 

I see he's still a fighter who seems to truly be a love them or hate them sort, still.

 

Wrong. Taylor was vastly over rated. He was matched really soft leading up to the Hopkins fight, because DiBella, knew guys like Eastman, or Allen would likely expose him. He caught Hopkins at the right time, and still needed controversial judging to win, over a 40 year old Hopkins, who could no longer fight a full 12 rounds while making 160 pounds. He also benefited hugely from corrupt judging. Hopkins, Wright, and Spinks, were all robbed by bogus judging in their fights with Taylor. Taylor's technique was vastly flawed, and his defense sucked. That being said, I thought he outboxed Pavlik clearly in the rematch. A guy like Jacobs would have probably KO'd Taylor though. Golovkin, would have KO'd Taylor. Charlo, would have KO'd Taylor. Taylor really wasn't that good.

 

In spite of @Zakman's best attempts to drive the narrative that Taylor was a hyped up mediocrity, Bad Intentions managed to compile one of the better resumes at middleweight since the turn of the millennium.

At the very least, he gave the reigning p4p king two of his toughest fights at middleweight, even if you don't think either fight should have gone his way. Personally, I think he went 1-0-1 against a guy who lands deep within the Top 10 of most observers all time middleweight. He then took on p4p rated Winky Wright directly after Hopkins, and fought well enough to legitimately earn a draw. He then decisioned Ouma (former jr middlweight titleholder who would go on to give GGG a tough fight), and a reigning jr middleweight titleholder in Cory Spinks. Not a single tune-up or tomato can to be found in that run.

Yes, he suffered a hard KO at the hands of Pavlik (after knocking him down earlier, it should be noted) but he came back to improve upon his performance and hold Ghost to a very close decision that many at the time thought should have gone his way.

Sure he lost to Froch, but not before putting him down and coming within seconds of beating him on the cards. Yes, he lost to Abraham, but not before giving a credible effort, while past his peak, against an undefeated prime guy who happened to be one of the very hardest punchers at the weight.

Then, after suffering through those defeats as well as from assorted out of the ring issues, he was still able to come back and snag an IBF middleweight title.

No, he didn't turn out to be a dominant middleweight champion. But he was a very good fighter who didn't shy away from a challenge when he was champ. I think that's something that should be respected.

But hey, Zak's opinion is his own, and if he wants to ignore the facts in order to drive his narrative, that's his choice. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened...won't be the last.

 

Taylor was involved in some close decisions, but I think the idea that he was the benficiary of robberies is overblown.

Hopkins, who had previously handled Eastman rather easily, lost the first half of the initial fight quite clearly and while he won the second half a win for Taylor was hardly inconceivable. Second fight I thought Taylor won a close, but clear decision.

I thought he did well enough to earn a draw against Wright, who, it should be noted, he didn't need to fight directly after Hopkins.

And I thought he beat Spinks, who hit JT's gloves most of the night. Taylor landed more, and cleaner. He wasn't particularly active but this was one occasion where he defended well.

He was brought up slowly, yeah, but in spite of erratic technique and being thrown in the deep end managed to hang with p4p talent. I think that's kinda impressive.

 

No he wasn't good, but he wasn't terrible either. I never thought that he beat Hop, and I always said that he couldn't fight inside.

 

The first fight I don't think Hopkins won, for the reason I stated previously, and you stated. A draw, or Taylor winning 7-5 was the right score in my opinion. Hopkins clearly won the rounds he was offensive, and clearly lost the rounds where he simply danced around and coasted saving energy, that was the first half of the fight. Can't give away 5, or 6 rounds and expect to win a decision against the guy that HBO was pushing at the next big thing. I disagree with the Wright fight being a draw. I thought Winky won fairly clearly. He even buckled Taylor with a left hand at one point when he was against the ropes. I thought Spinks outboxed Taylor. His speed and fluidity was too much for Taylor to handle. Pity pat for pity pat but again, Taylor was supposed to be HBO's next big thing. Fair enough. To try and argue that he would be able to hang with today's guys, who are all in, or around their primes is ludicrous though. Taylor's chin was never all that. A drained Hopkins had him hurt towards the end of their first fight. Pavlik stopped him, Froch stopped, him, Abraham stopped him, Winky Wright buckled him at one point during their fight. His bad defense, and chin would get him KO'd by the likes of Golovkin, Jacobs, Charlo, etc. And on top of that, Taylor didn't seem to hit very hard. Little Kassim Ouma was never even wobbled. He couldn't stop little Freddy Hernandez. No way in hell a guy like Golovkin, Canelo, Jacobs, Charlo, etc. would have anything to worry about in terms of power from Taylor.

 

Taylor was obviously a very good fighter. No ordinary fighter can hold Hopkins twice. His explosiveness and power carried him thus far.
Incredible resume Froch, lacy, ouma, Pavlik, Hopkins, wright, Abraham, truax, Spinks.
He faced the cream from jr middle, middle to super middle during his time.

 

Better than pretty good. Clear HoF