You think Jones cheated and is no longer an all time great. We all see what you are saying. Most of us saw it the first time you said it. The disagreeing isn't what makes you a nuisance, Idiot. Making multiple posts that essentially make the same argument is very annoying. 14, of the previous 51 posts in this thread combined, have been you saying the same thing over and over. That, or pieces of the same argument spread out. D@mn! Sum that $hit up! I have problems ranking Jones currently, and don't know how fix them. Jones has 2 brothers that play in the NFL. High level athleticism runs in his family. Jones is a tall grappler. Length = leverage. I don't remember who was quoted, but he was describing the difficulty in grappling Luke Rockhold. He was saying that tall people, that are exceptionally strong, present a different kind of problem. Well, Jon Jones is a tall fighter that is exceptionally strong. It only makes sense that Jones is good, right? On another forum a person asked if Jones knowingly cheated. I responded with: I haven't always liked Jon Jones. I've always respected his abilities. I used to hate him for being fake, which means I disliked his dishonesty. In a sense. Then some of his real personality was leaked during an on camera argument with Daniel Cormier. Jones stopped acting like a robot and I began to respect him more as a person. He failed a test for a recreational drug. I couldn't give less of a fuck. Then Jones failed for what could have been a drug taken to counteract the effects of coming off a steroid cycle. That's more serious to me. Was he cheating? Maybe a guy with a 600 pound deadlift has testosterone problems. Maybe he can't get it up. I don't know of Cocaine necessarily making hard to get it up though. Not for a male under 30. I know of it making it hard to come, or finish; but not always a problem getting started. Maybe he took a tainted Cialis tablet. Whatever...he gets suspended for a year. Jones comes back. Leaner than ever. Acts graciously in victory, but has a history of being publicly dishonest in my opinion. I wasn't calling him a cheater the 2nd time he defeated Cormier but wondered if his graciousness was a way of rubbing his win in Cormier's face. Now I feel like This content is protected That's the end of that quote. Anyway...I'm not going to bring all that up when I'm looking at someone else's all time rankings. These were not my rankings. I expressed my opinion on Nogueira, he responded. I would rank Nogueira higher than he did after our discussion, but I wasn't going to argue any further. It's not my list. I would have become nothing more than an annoyance at that point. Someone would probably even call me a nuisance.
Have to wonder if USADA testing was in effect back in the day how many of them on the list would of pissed hot. Silva and Jones and a few other one off infringements lately aka Belfort, Machida seem to be good examples of what they may have been up to for many years. To be honest would have to ignore the drug taking busts as the others more than likely achieved greatness but weren't caught at the time. Just looking at the physique/cardio changes and making weight dramas of some fighters since USADA is a sign as well.
I have no idea if this story is true. A friend told me that a certain boat designer made boats for drug runners. That designer got a job designing boats for drug enforcement agencies, to catch the boats of the drug runners. I was told he proceeded to play both sides of the fence for years. I wonder if a similar game is going on with USADA.
Thats where we disagree, cheating is never acceptable no matter how many times you've been caught. I've said it before and I'll say it again. When someone is caught cheating we only have two choices, dismiss the fights they were caught or dismiss their entire career. Doing the former preserves a list that is in keeping with the actual history of the sport doing the latter elevates lesser greats to the top of the pile.
What Machida did is nowhere near as bad as any of the examples that you gave with most of the people you named multiple offenders. Machida admitted before he was even tested that he took a substance soon as he realised that it had just been put on the banned list. It was his mistake not checking the updated list so he deserved some punishment but he didn't deserve the rediculous suspension he got compared to obvious cheats like Lesnar
I agree with most of this and think Jones is at the very least top 3 ATG.I'm Pretty sure both of Jones brothers have been suspended for taking PEDs also which isn't a great look
No dopers allowed on my list. They are cheaters. Fedor & Miocic are my favourite HWs ever. GSP greatest ever overall fighter.
