Weakest Eras in Heavyweight History?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by WABCBoxer, May 27, 2013.



  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Has anybody mentioned the period up to 1910, when the upper ranks of the division were full of very small men with underdeveloped boxing skills?
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    None of this would necessarily make it a weak era.

    There are clearly some periods before 1910, when you had a lot of strong contenders jostling for position.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Great but old and coming out of retirement.
     
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  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    So then what makes for a weak era? And what makes someone a "strong contender"?
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    In a weak era, a strong champion will be an Everest surrounded by Snowdons.

    A strong contender, should be a standout in his own right.
     
  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    What if there is no strong champion though? Or what if the contenders are strong but the champion really, really strong?
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There are certain constants that we see across all eras.

    The bums, journeymen, gatekeepers, and fringe contenders are pretty consistent across eras, in terms of what they are.

    We only see a big amount of variation between the better contenders, and the champions.

    No champion has ever been so much better tan his available contenders, that somebody couldn't give him serious problems, but some are much more dominant than others.

    The very strongest contenders, will stand out from the other contenders.

    This does not imply any sort of equivalence across eras, but it does give us a definition of a strong era, that transcends the various eras.
     
  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    There is simply no basis to claim that fringe contenders and journeymen are consistent across eras. To do so would be to assume an extraordinary amount of equivalence across eras.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  9. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Can anyone ban this clown?
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    This thread contains some of my better work. Treasure while i still stride this mortal terra firma.
     
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  11. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    The current one is pretty bad, theres really only 3 fighters left that are any good
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It doesn't require a shred of equivalence across eras.

    A man with another job, who fights for a few rounds against a contender, and then lies down, is going to be exactly the same kind of man in any era.

    A man who reaches fringe contender level, but is unable to progress further for whatever reason, is always going to be broadly the same kind of fighter.

    The training methods and rules might change, but these kind of fighters are always going to be the same creatures in terms of attributes and preparation, and they are always going to occupy the same sort of position in the hierarchy.

    Variation between eras, takes place in a very narrow zone, at the top of the food pyramid.
     
  13. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, a man who many years ago reached fringe contender level, but was unable to progress beyond that, of course held the same position in the hierarchy, as a man who today reaches fringe contender status, but is unable to progress further. That is kind of obvious, isn't it?

    Does this mean that, ability-wise, we can compare boxers from today with old-timers, who held the same place in the hierarchy (or pyramid, if you like) 100+ years ago? No, of course not!
     
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  14. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

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    A weak era means an era containing fighters you don't like or follow. That's honestly what it looks like to me.

    In reality it's very hard to gauge what's a weak era and what's merely a strong era with little drama. The Klitschko era was an average to decent era in which the main contenders were mostly foreigners with little personality or ability to communicate in English and fighters who were unwilling to take risks and jeopardise their paydays. There was plenty of talent there (Gold and Silver medallists, older fighters from the 90s and the like) but very little competitive fights, which led to a dull muddy era in which the only fighters you could say with any certainty were truly great were the K brothers themselves. It was certainly not loaded with bums, unless your definition of a bum is an amateur standout who beat Felix Savon twice (as Chagaev did).

    That's the trouble with truly dominant fighters. They make the rest look average and therefore create a false perception of weakness. An era in which the champion is constantly challenged, or in which fighters constantly jostle for the top spot in competitive and exciting fights looks a lot stronger paradoxically.
     
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  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    You seem to be assuming that but for a handful or so of the very top fighters, all boxers in any given era (including gatekeepers and fringe contenders) are equivalent to their counterparts in any other era. If so then, yes, you are assuming an extraordinary amount of equivalence across eras. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

    And there is no basis for any such assumption. One era's fringe contender may be another era's champion.