Ruben Olivares - As great as Monzon?

The more I learn about the career of Olivares the more impressed I am with the man and his accomplishments. He was the boxing equivalent of James Dean, living fast, hard and just about dying in the ring late in his career to complete the comparison between the two.

I've seen some of his very last bouts (And filled in the boxrec pages with information regarding a few of them if anyone cares for more info without digging the fights up) and he fought until he was beyond shot and could no longer even take a solitary decent punch. Similar to other greats who've continued on, like Roy Jones Jr, these once universally revered and great careers are dragged through the mud for years, resumes accumulating embarrassing losses. Some fight fans will say these post prime losses where the fighter in question was a shell of his former self don't muddy the water, but it inevitably takes some of the lust off the fighter as a whole. It's simply how it is. Getting out of the sport at the right time before your record is diluted in the eyes of the casual observer is way to be deemed indisputably great. Think Monzon's 87-3, JCC's 107-6, Hagler's 62-3, Rocky Marciano vaunted 49-0.

Olivares in his prime was undoubtedly a great fighter, as destructive an offensive machine as I have ever seen at the lower weight classes, with great punch accuracy, one of the greatest left hooks to the body of all time and respectable guile and skill. In more than one publication I've seen Olivares referred to as once being the premiere, all time most revered greatest fighter out of Mexico... A title that people later on in all their hoopla and promotion ended up seemingly moving that title onto Julio Cesar Chavez (Which I completely disagree with)

Olivares challenged himself in several matches where he was at a severe disadvantage from the get go. While plenty of JCC's career included plenty of record padding, and once he made his own move up in weight made sure to not match him against anyone who would be particularly dangerous to him. Olivares made the old school jump between the bantamweight and featherweight class, to meet one of the rangiest and biggest featherweights you can think of in the great Alexis Arguello.

Now Arguello is a fighter that is almost dead even with Chavez in terms of perceived greatness and accomplishments on this forum... So what does it say about Olivares that he moved up multiple weight classes to take on such a stylistic nightmare to himself while he was well past his prime and to be leading in the fight before being caught late?

If Chavez were to take on a similar challenge, it would have been along the lines of matching up against a young Ike Quartey, or Vince Phillips, fighters who would have large reach and size advantages over Chavez, with exceptional physical tools to boot. Basically, nightmare style match ups for an aging Chavez, a suicide match. Olivares did something exactly as mad as that, and he almost won!

Obviously Olivares was a fighter who burned brightly for a relatively short period of time, and Monzon was far more consistent. But I feel like I can tell greatness when I see it, and my question to end the thread on is this... Is it unrealistic to think Ruben Olivares is as great a fighter as the likes of Carlos Monzon, one of the consensus top middleweights of all time?

 

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Olivares had the ability to dent and outright brutalize even the sternest of chins, and this was the 15 round era when they would gleefully let two guys attempt guys kill one another over the course of 45 minutes. He was a truly dangerous puncher who could cripple almost anyone he fought with a clean left hook.

Consider this, years past his best he blew out a 43-1 Jose Luis Ramirez. A prime Edwin Rosario landed every punch imaginable on the same Ramirez and didn't come close to duplicating the result. I don't believe the Ramirez/Olivares fight is available, but I've heard that it was the result of a debilitating body shot.

A prime Rosario with two tries and Chavez showed they could hurt him to varying degrees up at 135. Stop? Nope. Not by Rosario, a surgical punch placer in his prime with huge power in both fists, with one shot power or a prime Chavez managed to do the kind of damage a blown up, ex bantamweight accomplished in two rounds.

He also blew up one of the toughest men to ever stop inside the squared circle, the endlessly brave Bobby Chacon, in just two rounds. Again, years past his best. He was an offensive force that not many can compare to.

 

Same to you sir, thanks. Watched any good fights lately?

Even watching Olivares destroy some of the teak tough, upset capable Japanese journeymen of his era is jaw dropping stuff. Even his second tier wins like Art Hafey are incredible. Art Hafey is a far better and more accomplished fighter than the likes of Arturo Gatti, yet no one knows a singular thing about the guy.

 

Funny you mention Gamboa's ill timed jump up in weight, much like I was talking about Olivare's suicide mission against Arguello. Gamboa must have gotten a nice paycheck for the fight but it definitely didn't help him with his career, momentum wise. To say he's stagnated in recent years, before finally going completely off the rails recently, well, it's an understatement.

 

Look at how Duran managed against his own Arguello in Hearns.... Just because you lose a fight doesn't necessarily mean you're an inferior fighter, especially when styles and age/mileage are taken into account.

 

Great stuff. Thanks RC! How ya' been lately!