whos resume is better per weight division between PDF and DLH?

I agree.

Just because a fighter somewhat past his best does better than expected or makes for a competitive fight, does not automatically he mean he would've won if he was in his prime.

 

You're free to answer and thanks for doing it :good

A few had DLH beating Floyd too. And I don't think Whitaker is the only win distinguishing their resumes though, unless you only count official wins. I thought DLH beat Tito and Mosley (whilst losing to Whitaker and drawing with Quartey), which works to blow Floyd's resume apart for mine.

Perhaps an 140 pound version, PERHAPS, but at 147? No way known. Ike was a monster. If Floyd was having trouble keeping a plodder like Castillo off him he would have been in DEEP DEEP waters against Quartey. The size and strength disparity is huge there.

I think DLH would have knocked all of them out within 7 or 8 rounds, with the possible exception of Jose Luis Castillo, who probably still gets knocked out, but near the very death of the fight.

Personally, I don't see Floyd beating any of those guys, though he would run them all close.

I disagree that FLoyd was much slower. I think he kept much of his speed and mobility from the lower weights. He wasn't as fast or mobile, but IMO, DLH was the one having lost more speed and mobility. At 140 DLH was MUCH quicker, and MUCH more mobile. He usually didn't fade until he went up to welterweight, so I don't see him fading at 140. Also, I think DLH would be the bigger, stronger fighter no matter what division they fought in.

 

That's fair enough I suppose.

Floyd is near the top of the 130 pound all time list, but how many great fighters have really stayed and established themselves in that division? That Oscar isn't near the best 135,140 or 147 pound fighter means nothing really when you consider how talent-laden those divisions have been compared to 130. Floyd is further from the top of the heap than Oscar in every other division bar the 130 class for mine.

Well, that's arguable. And really, it's arguable DLH beat Whitaker, Quartey, Mosley, Tito and even Mayweather. When you put it like that, the gulf between the two looks embarassingly wide. It depends how you emphasise it though. Becuase DLH also arguably lost to all those guys, which sling shots Mayweather way past DLH.

Hard to say exactly, though I think a fresher Oscar would have done the Oscar Floyd fought more than clearly. That said, he obviously would have dealt with the size disparity better, being a bigger unit as he is.

As I've said before, I think Floyd likely loses all the fights DLH lost or struggled in, but he wouldn't be embarassed in any of them. He is the smaller fighter though, so pitting him against big prime welters isn't exactly decisive of who is the better fighter between him and Oscar. Would Floyd beat 140 pound versions of fighters like Mosley, Quartey, Tito, Whitaker? Perhaps, perhaps not, though again, I think all those fights would be struggles.

I thought the fight was close all the way, with the exception of rounds 10 and 11 which were big, clear Floyd rounds. There was no desperation shown on Floyd's part, though the whole fight was a chess match and hence desperation wasn't really the story of the fight. I don tthink Floyd could have done anything other than he did, other than tried to go toe to toe more, perhaps been hit more and hitting Oscar back in return. That obviously wouldn't have been to his advantage and so he fought how he needed to fight to perfrom best in the cicumstances. I don't think he had another gear. If he did, I think he would have shown it.

 

True, it's not a given, though personally I think DLH DOES do better in his prime.

 

1. I don't think theres a real case for DLH beating Mayweather, I had it 9-3, the best you can give Delahoya is 7-5 and I can't give him better than 8-4. Whitaker-DLH is a 50-50 pick. REMEMBER IN BOTH FIGHTS DELAHOYA IS THE BIGGER MAN

2. Mayweather has more skill in any division, frankly the only reason this is slgihtly competitive is due to Delahoya's size advantage. We are talking P4P here.

3. I think he beats them but Delahoya didnt face many prime, super active fighters, the body attack, workrate and inside work of Castillo, Corrales and Hatton may have got to Delahoya. Judah is faster than Delahoya and would take the early rounds. But yes hes favourate in all, it doesn't mean he wouldn't slip in 1. I think your overrating DLHs power

4. Why? What advantages do any of Delahoyas have over Mayweather? Speed? NO Stamina? NO Defense? NO Inside Game? No Better Boxer? No. Trinidad has better power, Quartey is a better jabber (but a bit predicatable), Whitaker has better reactions (but this older Whitaker who nearly got beat by the Cuban isnt going to win)

5. Delahoya looks fast when he throws shoe shine combos but that isnt functional speed, functional speed is landing that first shot, the better boxers ALWAYS saw Delahoyas 'speed' coming

6. Mayweathers always fought and beat bigger stronger men. Delahoya can put on 10-15lbs at 140, but hes going to be more drained at that weight and not as big strong as at 154. At 154 Delahoya weighs 165 to Mayweathers 148.

I don't buy that Delahoya only lost stamina at higher weights, I think he lost stamina against better fighters who pushed him hard. Again the whole reasoning for DLH possibly standing upto Mayweather, is hes bigger and stronger, the only reason Mayweather went above 140 was to chase the big money, hes going over the weight class he should be at.

My basic premise is speed Delahoya up 10-20% and he still misses most of his punches and is still going to get countered cleanly by Mayweather. Also remember Delahoya as a 24yo didnt have quite the same technical/defensive skills

Too much is made of the age, there is only 4 years difference, Delahoya had a great camp, leading nutritionists, training and sparring, Delahoya didnt start losing until he went to face much bigger men. Plus Mayweather may have slowed himself since 2005

 

I have a question for you, which is a bit of an aside, though somewhat relevant: How did you have Hopkins-Calzaghe scored? Bear in mind that Calzaghe landed 100 more punches than Hopkins.

Bringing it back to DLH-PBF: I thought the punchstats in that fight were totally meaningless. Watching the fight, it was a close fight and the punch stats totally misrepresented what was going on. I have no problem with anyone thinking PBF won a close one, fair cop if you do, but I don't see how this was a 9-3 fight, at all.

I agree, he is more skilful on the whole. But DLH has the power advantage, which equalizes things a bit.

I don't think Castillo is much better than a Molina or Miguel Angel Gonzalez, who DLH defeated. I don't think Corrales is any better than Vargas, who DLH beat. I don't think Hatton is any better than the Chavez DLH fought the first time. I think DLH would slice Hatton up almost as bad as he did Chavez. I say almost because Chavez came into the first fight with a pre-existing cut, so Hatton may take a while longer to dice.

Better power, better jab, better combo throwing ability, height, reach, strength.

Trinidad has better power, he has super stamina (Floyd does too of course, but I just say that becuase Trinidad would hunt Floyd down and wouldn't give him room to rest), height, reach, Quartey has a better jab, is way stronger, is more powerful and wouldn't be phased by what Floyd throws at all. Whitaker has his tricks and is still, probably a better inside fighter than Floyd, even of DLH vintage. Floyd beats Hurtado/Rivera-Whitaker.

I thought he still got a lot of shoe shining in on Floyd. Didn't exactly do much damage, but he still landed it. Just because one of the top 5 all time defensive fighters made his flurries look inept doesn't mean any excellent boxer would.

P4P I actually thought he was at his strongest at 140. He didn't look weight drained there to me. He looked slightly too bloated actually at welter and above. If he had Floyd's training passion (and if the big fights were there) he'd have stayed at 140 for the good majority of his career imo.

Name for me a fight at 135 or 140 where he gassed. Check out the fights with Molina and Gonzalez, especially the Molina fight. Oscar was pressed hard there, but closed the show demonically in both fights. I don't see Floyd pushing him harder at 140 than those two did. That's not Floyd's style.

DLH showed me enough to suggest that he beats a prime Floyd, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Floyd looked bothered with DLH's speed as it was. Make DLH a little quicker of hand and foot and he'll have real issues imo.

A clear 7-5 DLH for me if the fight takes place at 135-140.

 

I don't want to get too involved in the discussion here, but i think we have to be fair here and recognise that despite running in the last rounds, he beat Trinidad fair and square, even embarrassed him for most the first 9 rounds.

The Vargas fight was also a big one that he won.

 

Look at the fact's..
The question is who's resume is better?
De La Hoya plain & simple.

He fought the fight's win or lose Mayweather didn't....Done.

 

You're right, look at the thread though and how it has evolved since starting out- resume per division. And taking on a top guy and losing shows you have guts, it doesnt enhance your resume however, wins do that (against good opposition).

Anyway, im no Mayweather fan, but in this thread, both fighters have got better resumes than each other in different weight classes.

I dont think it is debatable however, on the subject of who is the greater fighter overall, Mayweather hands down , to debate this you must be biased- definitely. This is not the general forum, we dont do bias here!! (Not on the delusional level anyway)

Oscar is nowhere near the great (at any individual weight class), that Floyd was at 130- thats that.

 

Say it like you mean it!

I'd take take Oscar close and clear at 135, 140 and 147. Floyd didn't really impress at 135 but showed some good, convincing performance at 140. I still think Oscar was more impressive at both weights though. Oscar has been the more impressive at 147 as well for mine, even though the results haven't always been there becuase of his tougher competition.

There's no doubt that he has a "W" next to his name against every opponent, if that's what you mean.

If you mean it's not arguable that he SHOULD have lost, at the very least to Castillo, well, I'm sorry but that is VERY arguable.

That's your prerogative, but I could care less what the judges think myself. They have shown themselves on the whole to be quite unreliable and as arrogant as it might seem, I trust my judgement over theirs just about every time.

Having said that, I should point out to you that even if you do take the judges' decision as final, well then you are FORCED to admit that DLH-PBF was close and could have gone either way, because it was a split decision with 3 close cards by the judges. If you are really committed to sticking by what the judges say, well then you have to admit that Oscar got close to beating PBF.

Fair enough.

I think Floyd beats him 8-4 or so, possibly stopping him late. Cotto has some decent skills, but he is easy to hit, and doesn't have the best stamina imo. Floyd would take him comfortably down the stretch.

My point is though, even if things did get desperate, and Floyd had to resort to combination punching and mixing it up more, would that really have been the best thing for him? That's playing into DLH's hands imo. TO put it bluntly: Floyd's extra gear, might have been his undoing. I thought he did what was best for him, and thus produced the best fight he could in the circumstances.

Fair enough.

 

I think Floyd would get his ass kicked by prime welterweight Mosley, and he would lose to Whitaker, too.

 

1. Mayweather scored cleaner better punches than Delahoya, when did Delahoya actually land a flush shot? Mayweather did often. Mayweather rocked Delahoya not vice versa. And he outlanded him 2-1. I scored BHOPs-Calazage because BHOPS punches were cleaner and more effective. Bottom line Delahoya was ineffective. SERIOUSLY WATCH THE FIGHT AGAIN IN SLOW MO - YOU'LL SEE PUNCHES YOU THOUGHT DELAHOYA LANDED DIDNT LAND

2. Castillo is better than Gonzalez and Molina, and hes more proven against the best fighters of the day

Hatton is bigger and stronger than Chavez, better workrate than the old Chavez, which is the all important aspects of a pressure fighter

3. Who does?

4. Trinidad gets schooled like Corrales did, its not even that close, Trinidad is made to measure for Mayweather

5. Yes Hatton/Delahoya werent phased by what Floyd throws, thats why 1 gets KO'd and the other gets rocked to his boots. LOL at Quartey being better inside than Floyd, Floyd's inside rolling and uppercut would. Quartey doesn't even fight inside. Its an outside battle and Floyd isn't losing to a 1 paced jabber. He'll slip the jab and counter all night, the jab and quality of Quartey may win a few rounds but he doesn't have the quality to win. Who did Quartey actually get a W against? EXACTLY and i think he beat Oscar

6. Whitaker, Floyd and Quartey all made Oscar look innept

7. You realise he weighed 155-160 at fight night at 140 and 147? Thats why at 24 Oscar mvoed to 147, he couldn't make those lower weights, hes too damn big, hes 5'11, with dense bones and a wider reach than most at Welter. Thats why OScar looked so much bigger than Quartey and Whitaker. My pet peave with Oscar is he drains to pick on smaller guys

8. Molina wasnt good enough to land clean shots Floyd will, Oscar simply didnt fight elite fighters at 135-140 to test his stamina. I dont think he has bad stamina but against the best he'll fade down the stretch

9. 8-4 or 9-3 Floyd for me, we will have to disagree, but watch the fight again in slow mo and see how Delahoya just doesnt land anything of note in the whole 12 rounds.