Does Jeffries belong in the top 30 of all time?

Tough he was but was he tougher than Chuvalo or Tex Cobb or Ray Mercer ? We don't really know based on the men he fought , terrific but small and long in the tooth ... I feel confidentent rating him as best of his day and may even rate him over Johnson if they ever went head to head but they did not and he remains an incomplete to me ..

 

In truth one of the kids bought us the deal for Xmas.

 

If that is how you define that performance?? but at least he was a live 6'4" 230lb fighter with talent......Jeffries certainly wouldn't know anything about a talented big man but he knew all about a talented ATG middleweight

 

I attached Johnson's record now tell me why Corbett got a shot....

Ed Martin KO 2 (20) October 18, 1904 Los Angeles, CA Retained World Colored Heavyweight title.
Win 21–3–5 Frank Childs Decision 6 June 2, 1904 Chicago, Illinois Retained World Colored Heavyweight title.
Win 20–3–5 Sam McVey KO 20 (20) April 22, 1904 San Francisco, CA Retained World Colored Heavyweight title.
Win 19–3–5 Black Bill Decision 6 February 15, 1904 Philadelphia, PA Retained World Colored Heavyweight title. Decision
given by the Philadelphia Item.
NC 18–3–5 Sandy Ferguson No contest 5 February 6, 1904 Philadelphia, PA The referee left the ring claiming the fighters were
"faking".
Win 18–3–5 Sandy Ferguson Decision 20 December 11, 1903 Colma, CA
Win 17–3–5 Sam McVey Decision 20 October 27, 1903 Los Angeles, CA Retained World Colored Heavyweight title.
Win 16–3–5 Sandy Ferguson Decision 6 July 31, 1903 Philadelphia, PA Decision given by the New York World.
Win 15–3–5 Joe Butler KO 3 May 11, 1903 Philadelphia, PA Retained World Colored Heavyweight title.
Win 14–3–5 Sandy Ferguson Decision 10 April 16, 1903 Boston, MA
Win 13–3–5 Sam McVey Decision 20 February 26, 1903 Los Angeles, CA Retained World Colored Heavyweight title.
Win 12–3–5 Ed Martin Decision 20 February 5, 1903 Los Angeles, CA Won World Colored Heavyweight title.
Win 11–3–5 Fred Russell Disqualification 8 December 4, 1902 Los Angeles, CA Russell was disqualified for several low blows.
Win 10–3–5 George Gardiner Decision 20 October 31, 1902 San Francisco, CA
Win 9–3–5 Frank Childs TKO 12 October 21, 1902 Los Angeles, CA
Win 8–3–5 Pete Everett Decision 20 September 3, 1902 Victor, CO
Draw 7–3–5 Hank Griffin Draw 20 June 20, 1902 Los Angeles, CA
Win 7–3–4 Jack Jeffries KO 5 May 16, 1902 Los Angeles, CA
Win 6–3–4 Joe Kennedy KO 4 (15) March 7, 1902 Oakland, CA
Win 5–3–4 Dan Murphy KO 10 February 7, 1902 Waterbury, CT
Draw 4–3–4

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Hank Griffin Draw 15 December 27, 1901

 

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I just have done if you paid attention.

Johnson was not really on the radar as a contender, until after the contract for Jeffries Corbett II had been signed.
Would you expect Jeffries to renege on the contract, and abandon his preparations in mid training camp, because another contender emerged?

Corbett got the title shot mainly because he was a big draw, and the public felt that he was owed a rematch, due to giving Jeffries a close fight previously.

With Fitzsimmons, Ruhlin, as Sharkey eliminated, he was increasingly looking like the only option.

 

I am saying that these men were the best available challengers, including the best black fighters of the era.

 

Head to head, he may not make the Top 100.

 

Louis and Dempsey as well as Johnson all had fought under 200lbs Louis in his reign just got above it Dempsey never did and johnson had barely started fighting over 200 before he won the title....but they all beat up bigger heavier men as well they all 3 had long careers and did not quit at 20 fights......Mendoza don't you need to know some thing about boxing history before you judge it? you see I read the stories and weed out the B.S. but you guys quote it without consideration of the motivating factors.....you just regurgitate without question out of lack of comprehension of all the factors that made black fighters of the era at every disadvantage something Jeffries never dealt with

 

You think Corbett who had been retired for 3 yrs and the 3 years before that had a 1W 4L 1D was the best available you think 165lb retired for 2 years Fitz was the best available????

 

Newsflash, a fighter is not "retired", because he does not have any fights listed on Boxrec over a certain period. If he his fighting regular exhibitions, and training regularly, then he is still an active fighter.

What you are effectively saying in Corbett's case, is that he had been waiting three years for his rematch, and it kept getting pushed back for one thing or another.

Yes Fitzsimmons was head any shoulders above any other potential contender when Jeffries rematched him, and I remind you that we don't know what he actually weighed.
But OK, let's assume that I am wrong.

If these men were not the best available challengers, then you should have no trouble saying who was, at the time when the fights would realistically have had to be negotiated.

Johnson is clearly out of the picture, so who does that leave you?

 

I'd be keen to know what you dine on there and how it went mate.

 

No, by definition if you have not fought for 3 years you are not an active fighter!
If you have formally announced your retirement as Corbett did, you are not an active fighter you are a retired one .
Giving exhibitions on a stage in a vaudeville show does not make you an active fighter? Jeffries and Fitz barnstormed America doing it!
When you come out of 3 years retirement to challenge the champion you are an ex fighter coming out of 3 years retirement!
To be an active fighter you have to be actively fighting if you aren't doing that you are not an active fighter!

That is absolute and undeniable and you are being quite ridiculous in insisting otherwise!

 

I wonder how many times this exact topic was already argued on here by exactly the same people.

 

Jeffries fought Corbett in1903 Corbett had not had a fight in3 years and had formally announced he was retired.
In his last fight,[1900,] he had a controversial win over Kid McCoy which quite a few thought was a fake, a put up job giving Corbett a win and hence a platform to come out of retirement and challenge Jeffries.
prior to this Corbett had not won a boxing contest for over 6 ,said fight being over, the under 160lbs Charlie Mitchell!
Jack Johnson at the end of 1903 had engaged in28 recorded fights losing 3 .He had not lost a fight for 2years .
Among Johnson's wins at that time were victories over.
Fergusonx3
Butler
Martin x2
McVey x3
Kennedy
Gardner
Childs
Russell
Klondike
Are you seriously suggesting that these wins are inferior or less deserving of a title shot than Corbett's record below?

Going into the second Jeffries fight Corbett's record was 19 fights 11 wins, his best victories were.
1890. Jake Kilrain a bare knuckle fighter.13 years before his 2nd title challenge to Jeffries
1890. Dominic McCaffrey another bare-knuckler ,a middleweight now trying his luck at Queensbury rules McCaffrey was 37 years old.13 years before his 2nd title challenge to Jeffries
1892 . John L Sullivan.Sullivan was 34 years old and had not fought in3 years his previous fight was a bareknuckle duel with Kilrain .This fight 11 years before Corbett's 2nd title challenge to Jeffries
1894 . Charlie Mitchell a bareknuckle and Queensbury rules fighter who was also a middleweight.9 years before his 2nd title change to Jeffries

1900 Kid McCoy in a fight that is still viewed with suspicion .3 years before his 2nd title challenge to Jeffries.