whos resume is better per weight division between PDF and DLH?

Wrong. Without question. De La Hoya never moved up from 140lbs to 147lbs due to weight making difficulties. He simply moved up due to bigger marquee fights at welterweight. Whitaker, Quartey, and Trinidad were all there waiting. It was the glamour division in boxing at the time. When Steward was trainer he said that De La Hoya was still a natural 140lb fighter. It's simply De La Hoya's height and being a multi weight champ which fools everyone into thinking "moved up because he struggled with the weight".

If you actually look at him when he fought Whitaker he wasn't exactly thick around the waist and shoulders. He wasn't tubular at all from head to toe. He towered over Whitaker with over 4" in height, but they hardly looked like fighters weight divisions apart.

Anyone got De La Hoya v Quartey to hand? Stick it on and look at De La Hoya's legs. Matchstick man. And lets not forget, that was two years after moving into the division.

When De La Hoya initially moved up to 154lbs in 2001 that wasn't due to weight making problems either. Fact. De La Hoya was in camp eating like crazy to build himself up with some weights thrown in to help the process. Mayweather snr stated that De La Hoya could still make 147lbs, and went as far to say that he would rather De La Hoya was a welterweight. Mayweather snr said on more than one ocassion that De La Hoya was a natural welterweight. Look at Vargas and Wright on tape and you'll see natural jnr middleweights.

I had a disagreement with 'Erratic Behhaviour' on here regarding De La Hoya still being able to make welterweight. He thinks that De La Hoya could never make 147lbs again. "he's fought at 154lbs for too long" he said. De La Hoya would make welterweight easy. He got down to 150lbs recently against Forbes and was still firing well down the stretch. He was on weight for around 2 weeks. Not signs of a fighter having a hard time with the scales.

De La Hoya may well be 5' 10", but isn't as naturally big as some people think. He couldn't make middleweight effectively. At 160lbs he was all fat against Sturm. Against Hopkins he weighed in 1lb over the jnr middleweight limit. Jnr middleweight was his maxiumum.

 

No your completely wrong, OScar weighed 160+ in pretty much all his Welter fights on fight night, and even 162-164 against Chavez in their second meeting. No way he could have made 140 much longer. He was pushed getting down to 147 let alone 140 Hes not going to be super muscular and 5'11 with a wide reach is he? Welter is his best division because of the size advantage

 

He only weighed 151lbs for the Kamau fight. And Steward said then that De La Hoya was still a natural 140lb fighter, that was his first fight after the Whitaker debut at the weight. And he never weighed 160lbs+ for all his fights at welterweight. Wrong. I never said that De La Hoya was always a natural 140lb fighter while fighting at 147lbs. However, he never moved up from 140lbs due to problems making the weight. No question about it. Money talked. Why fight Tszyu for $5 million when you can double it in the marquee division a weight up. He simply grew into the welterweight division. De La Hoya stands at just over 5' 10". Trinidad is 5' 11".

I can say without question, De La Hoya moved up from 140lbs strictly for the money, not due to problems making the weight.

 

You make it sound as though De La Hoya is mini version of Frank Bruno. Super muscular. I don't think anyone would use words such as 'super muscular' when describing De La Hoya on a physical level. Taller fighters usually carry the weight better than smaller fighters. But not always the case. De La Hoya happens to be tall at 5' 10", but he's not a broad shouldered and naturally thick set specimen.

As I have said, just look at his legs. He doesn't have thick legs at all. You are looking soley at his height and being fooled. I'm not. Look at his physical stature rather than his height alone.

He never moved up to welterweight to fight Whitaker due to problems making the weight at 140lbs. The move up was based on money. Disagree?

 

De La Hoya had said he was @ 147 for 6 weeks before the Forbes fight. Then he gets on the scale and weighs 150.5.

After the Forbes fight, there was a post-fight interview and DLH said the rematch would Mayweather would be @ 150, a non-title bout.

If DLH could really make 147, why wouldn't he have scheduled to fight Mayweather for the WBC and Ring titles?

Promotion sounds a lot better when it's "for the welterweight championship of the world" than for no-title.

I personally think this whole "retirement" is a sham and either a negotating ploy or publicity stunt.

If the rematch with Mayweather still comes off, or if DLH fights the Cotto/Margarito winner, I'll bet that it's at a catch weight above 147 instead of DLH going to challenge these guys for their welterweight titles.

 

Agreed with 135 and 147 being way more talent laden than 130, but not 140. 130 and 140 are both non-traditional divisions with much richer histories than other ones like 122, 154, 168, etc....130 has had some great fighters and talent like Chavez, Nelson, Arguello, Camacho, Chocolate, Saddler, etc..

130 and 140 stand out among the junior divisions historically, IMO.

 

I disagree. I think DLH landed the better quality shots and most of Floyd's shots were at least partially blocked. Not saying he didn't land some clean flush shots, but outside of the 10th and 11th rounds I don't remember many flush shots landing for Floyd. They were few and far between.

As for watching the fight again, no thanks, I've watched it about 10 times, which is about 9 more than it merited.

Well he lost to Mayweather, Corrales and Johnston twice imo. You could argue he lost to Casamayor as well, though I had him up by a point. If he is better than Gonzalez and Molina, it is only by a tad.

Not better chinned, or skilled though, and that's even with an old Chavez.

DLH does.

Comparing Corrales to Trinidad is a disgrace. Tito is much bigger, much stronger, hits much harder, has better boxing skills, better stamina, he is way beyond Corrales on a p4p scale to say nothing of their actual weight classes. If Floyd ran from an old DLH, what do you think he'd do with Tito on his tracks? I say Trinidad runs him out of the ring.

LOL at DLH being rocked to his boots. And LOL even more at Luis Collazo nearly knocking Hatton out at welter.

Did I even say Quartey was a better inside fighter? I said Whitaker was. Quartey would laugh of anything Floyd did and keep him at long range with his jab and right hand at all times. Floyd has a chance winning it if he stinks the joint out Baldomir style, but I still think he loses with that strategy. Quartey has the speed to catch Floyd consistently, I have no doubt.

The only fighters to make DLH look bad imo were Whitaker, Mosley and Strum.

This is a myth, as has been pointed out by Robbi. DLH weighed 151 on fight night against Whitaker and Kamau. At 140 he would have weighed even less than this. There was no reason for him to go up to welterweight other than money and better competition. The only time he got up into the 160's as a welterweight was against Quartey, and that was a fight where he looked podgy around the waist, and quite obviously didn't train as hard as he did for the other fights because problems outside the ring. As I've said, Oscar with the right mentality and intention would have made the 140 pound division for much of his career.

Molina was good enough to tax a near prime DLH more than Floyd did to a 5 years past his prime DLH. That was actually the most gruelling bout of DLH's career. He landed plenty of flush shots on Oscar, legally and illegally, and roughed him up more than anyone has.

Disagree we will.

 

140 and 130 have both been weights that have had a lot of great fighters fighting in them at one stage or another, but very few stayed at 130 or 140 and established careers there. I'd still say 140 is more talent rich than 130 though, but not by much.

Compare:

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jrlight.htm

With:

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jrwelt.htm

 

That's cool. I don't like either fighter, but DLH irritates me less nowadays than he did 10 years ago when he was in his pomp.

I'm fine with that. Mind you we have a better picture of what DLH can and can't do against greats because he faced quite a few of them. Mayweather in his career has faced one great imo (btw, by great I mean fighters I'd put inside my top 150 or so) and that's DLH. So whilst I agree Mayweather has great skills and talent, it's still a rather speculative call for mine.

I was okay with that until I saw the word dominating. Mayweather didn't dominate in either fight for me. I only had him taking the second fight by 3 points and that bout showcased Castillo's limitations to me more than Mayweather's prowess.

You think Mayweather retired undefeated? That's fine.

I accept the decisions of judges as a part of the sport, but when it comes to what I think of any particular result, the judges cards are next to meaningless to me. When I can (that is when I can see a fight and dn't have to rely on reports) I like to judge fights by what I think is right, or just, not by what others think is right and just. I don't think that means I live in my own world necessarily, because I have a picture of what is right and just in a fight, and I don't see it as such something relative to my perception, but something referring to a truth. A truth which I think gets ignored sometimes by judges.

You still think I'm in my own world? That's cool too. A difference in philosophies I think.

That's cool that YOU saw it as clear, but taking the judges as a whole, that decision wasn't clear. It was split.

I pay little attention to it unless the other fighter is literally stinking the joint out avoiding a fight. If someone chases a fighter the whole round and doesn't land or throw anything and the other runner is just running, I give that round to the chaser.

Effective aggression is important though. But funnily enough, I don't think it was a factor in DLH-PBF. What I think was a factor, was the effective defense of DLH, something which I think a lot of people overlook in that fight.

There's hope for us yet :good

I think Cotto has the more natural talent and potential, but I'd say it's still too early to say. Projecting into the future, I say Cotto will go down the better fighter.

I don't agree, but you could be right. It is a shame we won't find out.