Regis Prograis vs. Julius Indongo & Ivan Baranchyk vs. Petr Petrov RBR

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Mar 9, 2018.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    Damn you, putting me on the spot...

    I absolutely love the Reptile (fuck the stupid Machine alias, that's how much of an OG fan I am, I still rock with the old nickname!) but Kessler is my ride or die. The only guys I might arguably like more than Kessler are Izzy V, Johnny Tapia, Cristian Mijares, Hagler and Joe Louis.
     
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  2. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Any list that has Willie Pep over Harry Greb is automatically invalid. Any top 100 list that includes Carpantier, Jenkins, and Graziano, doesn't warrant consideration. No Terry McGovern, either. Even if you limit a list like this strictly to white fighters, this list is just awful.
     
  3. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    To be fair to Indongo, I don't think the more recent iteration of Postol lasts much longer than he does against Prograis- especially if he takes the fight on short notice.

    Blue Machine did a decent job of maximizing the talent he had to defeat a flawed but dangerous Troya on the road and follow it up with a shut out win against an unspectacular but gritty Burns in the latter's backyard. Crawford, of course, solved Indongo and dismissed him easily...but it's Crawford. And Prograis has the look of someone who will do the same thing he did to Indongo to a lot of other guys he faces by the time he's done.

    That said, Indongo's balance was crap last night. If his legs are gone, he should probably call it a career and enjoy his unlikely (but, imo, not undeserved) status as a partially unified champ.
     
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  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    ...and this, ladies and gentlemen, is what happens when a mere dabbler in boxing history is shown up by a legitimate scholar and qualitative analyst for the sciolist he is. :deal:
     
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  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    I've been waiting for so long for a perfect opportunity to seamlessly & organically work "sciolist" into everyday banter. Thank you, random alt.
     
  6. Gene Sr

    Gene Sr New Member banned Full Member

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    @IntentionalButt @Drew101 @Nonito Smoak I'll happily let you know that the greatest of all time List that I pasted into this chat was not my own list, it was from 'Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters List'

    I think Bert Sugar knows more about boxing history than all of us put together to be honest with you! :D
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    1. He probably did know more about his milieu, which is to say 20th century boxing, than any of us, and was immersed within that world in a 1st-person capacity with a perspective that none of us can match. That said, that's a double-edged sword and he was also very much a prisoner of his perspective and product of his times. He was sort of a spiritual successor to Nat Fleischer, in that he was around for a very long time, contributed to both the boxing lore (that is, objective history) and mythology (the exaggerated folklore canon) in many important ways (including being chief editor of the Ring Mag for a number of years, in both their cases), and were both complex human beings capable of being at once profoundly insightful on a good many subjects but also very myopically wrong on some others.
    2. While serious fans' and peer historians' opinions about the man run the gamut from deep respect to disdain, Sugar's rankings themselves were a laughingstock for most of the last quarter-century of his life, and beyond - and have continued to be widely criticized as overly weighted towards his personal sense nostalgia, for basically the entire 30 years since it was published. Which is another point, they necessarily exclude the whole of the sport's history since 1988. Which means you've shot yourself in the foot by hailing a list that includes none of your precious EE greats to come along since the Iron Curtain fell. Whoopsie.
    3. Who let you back in?
     
  8. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh!

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    Indongo is probably already getting ready for his next gymnasium fight in Namibia, the record padding/road to Troyanovsky II has begun!
     
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  9. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    One might question that assertion, at least as far as his decision to include relatively nondescript champions like Carpantier and and Graziano at the expense of MacGovern. That's a bad error; but Sugar was prone to make them from time to time.
     
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  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    Exactly. Bert has a place in the flow diagram of fight writing, and his body of work is worthy of respect but that doesn't mean he's infallible, nor that his rankings can be trotted out as some kind of trump card.