Why do we always pick historical fighters over current ones?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Infern0121, Apr 14, 2018.



  1. Twentyman

    Twentyman You dog nonce! banned Full Member

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    Fair points mate.
     
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  2. PolicemanPrawn

    PolicemanPrawn Member Full Member

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    To sound more intelligent and knowledgeable, especially in the context of interacting with hardcore fans. To say Anthony Joshua made you a boxing fan isn't looked upon favourably.

    It's one of those cases where having more information makes you dumber, when you argue that a 175 lb dude from the 19th century can beat the modern fighters.
     
  3. jonny v

    jonny v Well-Known Member Full Member

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    My argument is not that a 175 pound (dude) from yesterday beats a heavyweight of today just because he was in the "heavyweight" category back then. Match a modern 175 with a jack dempsey and I'm afraid dude that dempsey destroys him. Fact
     
  4. jonny v

    jonny v Well-Known Member Full Member

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  5. PolicemanPrawn

    PolicemanPrawn Member Full Member

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    Even that is questionable. Dempsey would probably be fighting at modern-day cruiserweight. How would he fare against fighters like Usyk, Gassiev, Haye, and Holyfield? I suspect they would compete well with Dempsey, and probably even be favoured to beat him.

    People like to big up historical fighters because they think it makes them sound clever (they may have invested some time researching them), but deep down they must realise they are being silly, like claiming their dad can beat Batman in a fight. If these fighters could be time-transported to the present day, and these people were offered the chance to bet on them against modern fighters, these people would suddenly be very reluctant to back their man. Talk is cheap.
     
  6. big moose

    big moose Active Member Full Member

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    It reminds me of a podcast on football I once listened to. An 80s ex-pro was asked how his all-conquering side (I think he was a Liverpool player) would have matched the current best. He admitted that whilst they might have given a good account for the first half, they would have been "blowin' out of their arses" in the second half, and been absolutely battered whilst they staggered around wheezing.

    Improvements in conditioning have led to footballers running twice the distance in a game compared to 20 years ago. God alone what the comparison is with the "Golden Ages" of the 70s-80s; footage from then can often look shot in slow motion. Top-tier footballers in England before the 90s often smoked and lived on fry-ups. Arsene Wenger is credited with revolutionizing the game largely because he disapproved of booze and liked pasta!

    So there are grounds to say that for any past / present comparison to have meaning, you have to make an adjustment, Imagine the historical fighter with access to modern conditioning, and also able to fight at a lower weight due to 24 hr weigh-ins. Unfortunately, that makes an already indirect comparison even more flaky, and perhaps underlines the incredible futility of the exercise.
     
  7. jonny v

    jonny v Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Rubbish! The fighters of yesterday were animals. Humans were more animalistic. Teak hardened life hardened hungry
     
  8. superman1692

    superman1692 Active Member Full Member

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    Yea cos Deontay Wilder, Charles Martin, David Price, Joseph Parker, Tyson Fury, Dave Allen, Dillion Whyte and co are a real hodge podge of top tier talent - they’d all beat Ali, Foreman, Tyson and Lewis in the same night cos they is bigger innit, and gots the advanced nutrition as well brah
     
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  9. velagod

    velagod Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah it’s like clearly to me Sean masher Dodd would clearly **** up roberto Duran and stop him within 4 rounds.
     
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  10. SambaKing

    SambaKing Member banned Full Member

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    FOOTBALLERS RUN TWICE THE DISTANCE THAN THOSE FROM THE 90S? Paahahahahahahahhahahhaha

    B*llocks! One of the worst examples of making something up and passing it off as fact that I've ever seen.

    Robbie Savage said something perfectly a few months back,
    "People say the game is quicker now, we played against Overmars, Henry, Anelka! How is it quicker?" So true.

    Messi is the greatest of all time, so I'm not sh*tting on current players, but Maradona, Maldini, Platini, Cryuff etc would still be the best players on the planet today. Maradona, Zico, Garrincha, Cryuff, Best, etc had the ball glued to their feet on horrible pitches & despite getting kicked all over the place. Phenomenal players. Scary to think what some of them could do on the pitches today.

    Defenders from 15/20 years ago were better than today's. This is blatantly obvious on the eye test. Thuram, Stam, Nesta, Maldini, Cafu, Carlos, Cannavaro, etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  11. big moose

    big moose Active Member Full Member

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    I cannot be bothered to dig out my reference but the x2 running statistic is widely reported and derives from OPTA tracking data (from a different source to the Liverpool player's view about collapsing in the 2nd half).

    Current players run around 13km per match, back in the '90s it was more like 7-8km. Supposedly the number of on/off the ball sprints has increased similarly. I imagine teams that play a pressing game (Guardiola / Bielsa -esque or a German style Gegenpress etc) run even more.

    You can argue that past players were better "footballers" - better touch, awareness, creativity etc - that's fairly subjective. But that modern players run more is a basic physical fact, and one that has been tracked for over 20 years.

    Also, your comparing a hand-picked selection of players from a 40 year period with the current snapshot seems dubious (and Garrincha was a wonderful dribbler but he certainly didn't run a a lot - he had gammy legs!).