What made Chavez Sr so special?

Campos did end Ayala's hopes. That was a good contribution

 

He liked to beat the crap out of his opponents...if he could not finish a guy off quickly, he was more than happy to slowly torture him...that's what was instrumental in making him who he was...a truly great fighter.

 

Great skills. After working with JCC in his dotage, Manny said he was one of the very best boxers he had the privilege of seeing in the gym.

 

All great points.

Chavez wasn't flashy so he was not touted for greatness as were some fighters who manage to look better and that's probably why it took the boxing media in the US a while to appreciate him. Even after he had crushed Roger Mayweather in 1985, it wasn't until he put on a clinic against Edwin Rosario that people started to take notice and he'd been a world champ for three years! He absolutely earned the respect he ended up getting.

To say he was effective sounds like a backhanded compliment but he truly was. Every punch he threw had a purpose and he put his full weight into each one. He didn't waste punches or energy and he closed distance as effectively as any pressure fighter in history.

The Taylor fight is a perfect example of what made him great - Taylor won the eye test with his flashy/aesthetically pleasing combinations while Chavez methodolically put the hurt on him and ramped up the pressure as the rounds went on. The physical state of Taylor at the end is testimony to that.

And he was the last great 15 round fighter.

 

Good post.

I get the point your making with the Taylor fight, the show caseing of everything we associate skillwise with the iron willed Chavez. However JCC was outclassed on the night. If it wasn’t for external influences outside the control of two fighters ie Mr Steele MT would have won the fight that night.

 

When I rewatch {Round 12}Taylor/Chavez I am amazed at the way Chavez was able to stay relaxed. It was like he was sparring. He knew he had Taylor and he had a sense of urgency but at the same time he was calm. Taylor helped him by playing right into his hands but so many other fighters would have gotten wild and wasted energy and time. He was masterful.

At that time I didnt like Chavez and rooted against him. I wanted to see Taylor beat him and then later on Whitaker. Now years later that perspective its easier to see how great he truly was.

 

Relentlessly attacking Rosario without a care in the world about his crushing hitting power. That fight was one of the best examples of pressure and inside fighting you'll ever witness.

 

Amazing think was that Chavez was basically self taught. Only when he reached the high levels did he receive proper training. Chavez didn't even learn how to hit speed bag.
Newspaper mentions Chavez self taught.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=QYsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6641,2672693&hl=en

 

Extremely tough fighter with a rock solid chin, dedication to training, very elusive, tactically aware, unbelievable stamina, relentless attack, brutal body punching, great positional awareness, and a high-pressure style which involved him driving opponents into ever deeper waters and then drowning them.

As a man? I respected his devotion to his family and country. I also kinda liked the fact he never really learned English, too, for some reason. Lent him a certain mystique and saved us from the banalities of the Golovkin-style interview in which (to his credit) he speaks English but thus can't really express himself.

 

You got that right and in 85 was the first time I took notice of him and in that very fight...what I remember most was the right hand Mayweather slammed off his jaw that would have KO'd many fighters and JCC just acted like a cyborg and kept on doing his thing....I had a good inkling he was the real deal but like you said without the flash he was a fighter you had to watch in different fights to understand his mastery of boxing.

 

I don't get this at all. He destroyed Taylor. I remember calling it out during the fight that JCC was f*cling him up. You can win the battles and hope that translates into a victory of the war... Or you can be a warrior and win the war.

 

He wasn't self taught, that just isn't the case. The guy that taught him did get cut out of the money, his name escapes me, but my friend that used to post here knew him well. As recently as 2015 my friend was considering taking a young fighter to him.

 

Seamus, I agree with many of your posts and opinions but I think on this one it's that luxury of hindsight talking. I to remember this fight at the time. I'm a Brit but was living in the states as a kid mid teens. I was possible blinded by MT as he was my favourite fighter at the time, everything skills wise I aspired to. But I objectively remember him ahead on the cards and not just ahead but in a classy way. But sure the legend that was Chavez was brutally pounding his way back into the fight and that's what made it the nail biter it was as we saw MT gradually starting to fade and Chavez seeming to get stronger.

I was no JCC hater at the time, but still see and saw the fight as via a "boxing match" a win for MT despite Chavez busting him up in the long term. This fight looms large in my fight memory due to my age at the time and the influence it had on the direction I chose to go interms of my own fight style.

 

I agree with this. The night of the fight, watching it in a bar, I thought that Chavez was winning the war. It was close but I had Chavez ahead and figured the knockdown sealed it for him.

 

Watch the fight again and honestly tell me who you had ahead on the cards....hand on heart without the luxury of hindsight.

MT was even a force in the 12th were he had already built up a substantial points lead.

Posted the full fight & the final round.

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