What made Chavez Sr so special?

No one had Chavez ahead.....not at the time. It's only years later that people come to that view now MT has faded into the past and JCC Sr is considered an ATG legend which of course he is.

 

I'm not talking about cards. I am talking about one man taking the other's life force both figuratively and literally. Taylor absorbed a frightful, Willard-esque beating. When asked about the stoppage, Steele talked about the sound of Taylor's bones being crushed by Chavez's punches all fight long. It wasn't something that happened in the 12th but the whole fight. The evidence is the shell of Taylor that remained after the fight. Chavez was winning the war. Chavez won the war.

 

The articles in the magazines after called it a close fight; one I recall said that the only travesty surrounding the fight was the judge that had Taylor 8 points ahead.

I had Chavez ahead going into the last round. Watching with a pro Taylor crowd I figured it would get ugly when Chavez won. When Taylor went down that removed all doubt in my mind.

 

In that sense I agree 100%, you can't disagree, it's a fact JCC took MT's soul. But in terms of the Queensbury's rules and 99% of boxing cards on the night before Steele's hanky panky points, it's points win to MT. But no doubt MT took the most brutal beating a fighter can take...well really he couldn't take it hence the reason we don't hear or see from him today.

 

I'm not doubting what you recollect, but in terms of score cards even the pro Chavez HBO had it wide in favour of MT. I think I even still have the following month's KO magazine with JCC on the front but I don't remember any

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rather that seemed to be the common consensus of rounds MT was ahead. It was hard to find anyone pro MT before that fight, JCC was the man in the media and public opinion. It's actually quite interesting cos the version of the fight I posted is an interesting time capsule of boxing at the time for the first 20 mins....tells you all you need to know about how people felt about MT & JCC at the time.

 

It was a Boxing Illustrated article I think, back when they had the ringside reports in the back like Ring used to do, even most of the same correspondents.

I understand that many had Taylor ahead but I never have. Not having watched the fight God knows how many times, even watching it in slow motion.

 

HBO`s announcing crew did s disservice to the fans that night. Officially it was Lederman that had Taylor up 11-0 if I remember correctly. Lampley was cheerleading Taylor the entire night. He was calling all of Taylor flurries and ignoring the inside work that Julio Cesar Chavez was doing.

I learned after that to sometimes go back and watch a fight with the sound off.


Chavez was the better man that night and he earned that victory.

 

I think Taylor-Chavez was a close fight going into the final round, probably about level, with a slight points edge for Taylor - but with Chavez threatening to win by stoppage at any moment. The referee did the right thing in stopping it, and actually could have legitimately done so earlier given the punishment Taylor was taking. The knockdown maybe was just cover for what he was starting to feel he'd have to do to protect Taylor's health - but which he knew the crowd wouldn't like. He said himself right after the fight that he felt Meldrick had had enough already - I don't think he was referring to a one-punch knockdown.

 

Amazed is no overstatement. I'm not sure I've ever seen composure quite like it in such a high-pressure situation at such a high level. Truly remarkable. I actually had commented on this matter in a previous thread;

I don't support the notion that Taylor was cheated of victory or that Chavez was outclassed.

The facts of the bout's conclusion are 1.) that Chavez badly hurt Taylor within the scheduled distance, and 2.) that Taylor was unresponsive and unfocused when asked to give Steele signs that he was fit to continue boxing. As Steele correctly observed, it wasn't his job to consider the clock in the instance of a boxer being hurt, only to call an end to the fight if he deemed the hurt boxer unfit to continue.

Additionally, the bout was much more competitive than many observers' accounts give credit for. Listening to those, one might think that Taylor put on a pure boxing clinic for the first 8 rounds. What he did was outwork a much more economical puncher, making use of his exceedingly rare handspeed, which did win him a considerable number of rounds. But the high-quality boxing -- the punching coordination and precision, the keen technical defense -- was coming from Chavez. HBO's pre-fight 'contrasting styles' graphic, showing Taylor to be the higher output fighter and Chavez to be the more accurate, was proving itself from as early as the 2nd round when Taylor's mouth was busted. I've no issue with anyone having Taylor ahead going into the 12th, but it was not the landslide or the schooling of myth and legend(ary nights).


I'd also argue against the idea that HBO were pro-Chavez on this night. For sure, they were respectful of him and gave him the big build-up. And why not? All the better for the big push they were putting behind the young American gold medallist whom they were hoping would topple the 68-0 Mexican (or 67-1, but that's another story), now most observers' pick for P4P after Tyson's fall to James Douglas just a month prior. The Americana was on display in the Philly man's ringwalk, the judges were all from the US and the crowd was very pro-Taylor. The stage was set for his coronation, and Chavez narrowly (but masterfully) averted it.

 

I probably shouldn't have brought up the Chavez-Taylor fight, should I?

 

Relentless pressure fighter, who could handle slick mobile guys. He didnt have the bone crushing power of a Tyson type fighter that made mobile guys stand and fight, but he was able to keep the pressure on enough and land enough punches to break his opponents down over the course.

 

It’s kind of impossible to discuss Chavez’a legacy without it coming up. It’s his most famous win, if not his peak performance (that was the Rosario fight).

 

Again, this is overstated and it wasn't really the beating many make it out to be. People who have their physical and mental being taken, aren't up at the count of 3, aren't looking bewildered when the fight is stopped and saying "what" "why", and they certainly don't walk back to the dressing room under their own power. They're generally heaps on the floor. I believe people overstate how badly Taylor was hurt to try and justify the stoppage and balance the equation against the people that say it was a BS stoppage. People act like he never had a good performance again, which simply isn't true.

 

Very well put.

 

Welcome back.